Simplex Ashpan

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

I've just about completed the refurbishment of my second hand Simplex. It's boiler has been re-certified and I've just got a list of odd jobs to tidy up bits and bobs that I'm working through.

Now I've run it, one of those jobs is replacing the ash pan with one I can get in and out. With the Super Simplex Martin Evans acknowledged the error in his original design and modified the ash pan to be removable. In doing that he also modified the foundation ring on the boiler.

OK I should have done this before I put it alll back together but I can't get the existing ash pan out without removing the tanks, cab, some of the plumbing and releasing the boiler mounts so I can lift the boiler sufficiently to get it out. So before I do all that can I ask is it possible to make a functional but removable ash pan for a standard Simplex? I have fabricated horns not cast.

thanks

Pete

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Question

[terry isherwood 1Participant @terryisherwood1]

Pete

I know it is a pain isn't it?

My Simplex has a fixed ashpan but the flat bottom of the ashpan is hinged at the front with a strip rivited to the underside fore and aft and turned down at the ends. A rod with a knob on the end goes through a guide attached to the rear frame streacher, through a guide rivited to the rear of the ashpan then through holes drilled in the turn downs of the strip on the underside of the ash pan bottom. The rod carries on under the hinge. Confused?

It is all lined up and the rod keeps the bottom of the ashpan firmly closed.

The grate has two legs at the front with holes. The grate is inserted through the bottom of the ashpan and rests on a cross rod at the rear then a pin goes through the side of the ashpan, through the holes in the legs and into a threaded boss.

I simply pull the knob, the rod comes back and the bottom of the ashpan swings down, ash falls out. I do find though that ash collects at the rear of the ashpan where it goes over the rear axle so this has to be frequently hooked out.. If I need to drop the fire I just pull the knob and take the pin out.

Might be over complicated but it seems to work

Terry

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Terry

Apologies for the tardy reply but I didn't get a notification. That sounds interesting but I got lost on about the second sentence any chance of a photo or two?

regards

Pete

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

That sounds interesting but I got lost on about the second sentence any chance of a photo or two?

+1

Russell.

[Colin HarwoodParticipant @balljoint]

Pete

I have just bought a second hand Simplex, and on mine the whole of the ashpan and the grate drop out from below simply by pulling out a single pin. Makes life so much easier if you have to drop the fire in a hurry.

I will try and take some photos and post them later later

Colin

[Colin HarwoodParticipant @balljoint]

Pete

I have now uploaded some photos into an album if you want to have a look.

Hope this helps

Colin

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Colin

Thanks for tyhe photos, some ideas in there

At first I had thought it was a Super Simplex becuase of the angle of the grate then saw it only had a single super heater which indicates a Mk1 Simplex. The grate is designed to come out of the Super Simplex, maybe the builder managed to work out how to use a super grate on a Mk1 Simplex or its a hybrid as the foundation ring on the super is at a different angle.

Either way the builder worked out how to make it work,

regards

Pete

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

I just picked up this thread….

I finished building my Simplex this year, and I've built it with an ashpan with grate that drops out when you extract the retaining pin. This is pretty normal practice.

I've deviated from MrEvans' design a little due to the poor clearance I have above the top of the horns to the foundation ring. There's not a lot of room to play with, but I knocked up a cardboard template to ensure it worked.

Del.

[Nigel HydeParticipant @nigelhyde97004]

My dad built and finished a simplex about 30 years ago.

this year the boiler failed its steam test so a new boiler is being made

the ashpan not removable is a nightmare, i have the same problem with my titch!,

my dad made a removable ashpan with the use of a dump pin, but be warned the rear axle does need covering as it gets covered in ash and wears the axlebox out rapidly, My dad designed ashpan number three with a cutout to cover the back axle after the second rebuild

simplex is a monster loco, so easy to drive with plenty of power, as part of the rebuild the bore on the cylinders was reduced as we were only running at 90 psi (simplex is designed for 110 or 120 psi i think&#39 the change was unbelievable so much steam and much faster and a happier driver!!

hope this helps

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Nigel,

I know this post is several years after yours, but, when the cylinder bore was reduced, what was the reduced bore size?

Thank you,

David

[nigel Hyde 1Participant @nigelhyde1]

Hi David

My dad is still working on the new boiler, I keep giving him projects!!

this is from my dad

Simplex was sleeved from 1 1/2" dia. bore down to 1 3/8" dia. This was originally suggested by Rugby Clubs George Williams in about 1975.

We also modified the grate and ashpan from the original design …..(the drawings may have been updated over the years).

The grate was originally designed with 3/16" bars & 3/16" spaces. we changed that to 1/8" bars with 1/4" spaces.

You should ensure that the air entry into the ashpan must not be less than the net area of the fire-bar spaces. The original ashpan design certainly left the loco struggling. for air! Also consideration should be given to protecting the back axleboxes from ash………its a lot of work replacing solid axle boxes

I hope this helps

Nigel

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Hi Nigel,

Thanks so much for the response and the information. I am building a Super Simplex. It has been suggested to me that the cylinder bore needs to be reduced also. As it turns out, I have reduced mine to exactly the diameter that your dad has chosen, 1-3/8". I'm glad to know that this has been a beneficial modification. I am in the process of putting the boiler together. I am using a stainless steel grate from Blackgates and will be using the ashpan design for the Super Simplex. The ashpan will pretty much cover the rear axle to not expose it to ashes. I will have to figure out if it allows for enough air to get to the fire! It should be pretty easy to open the forward side of the ashpan to allow for more air flow if needed.

Thanks again,

David

[nigel Hyde 1Participant @nigelhyde1]

Hi David

I am over at my dads the weekend I will take a few photos of the ashpan

this might give you some ideas

Nigel

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Hi Nigel,

Photos would be great! Thanks for taking the time if you are able!

Daid

[nigel Hyde 1Participant @nigelhyde1]

Hi David

well here they are, I always find a nice deep fire, this design gives plenty of air and more importantly save the back axle from getting covered in ash and getting ash in the axle boxes and save a re build!

the back axle runs in the space of the scoop area, I hope that makes sense

Hope this helps

Nigel

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Hi Nigel,

Thank you for taking the time to shoot these photos. Looks like this version has the hatch to dump the ashes without removing the entire pan or grate. It also looks like it is held in by a pin that goes through the tube mounted left to right.

It's hard to tell, but, it looks like the "scoop" that goes under the axle is open where it is attached to the pan to allow for more air flow. Is this correct?

David

[nigel Hyde 1Participant @nigelhyde1]

Hi David

I have spoken to my dad and this is what he has said

" The ashpan is inserted up at an angle and slid between the top of the horns and bottom of firebox. A cross pin fixes it in place. Air feed is from two directions, the first horizontally, from the rear, and, as you noticed, vertically up into the scoop and into the bottom of the ashpan, through the firebars. The ashpan flap is to dump the ash when necessary and, could be left open to admit even more air if required.

The grate is held onto the ashpan by two fingers at the front and a slotted rod at the rear. In early trials I found the firebars were burning through at one point too quickly. To overcome this I placed a "button" underneath the firebars at that point to divert air around it. It worked.You can see the "button" sitting on the slotted rear grate fixing rod.Hope this is all clear "

Thanks Nigel

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Okay, thank you. I will have to make a cardboard mock up of this before I commit to metal. I like what I see. Thanks again so much!

David

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Nigel,

I thoroughly approve of the grate design, but I think the rearward shoot type extension to the ashpan completely superfluous. Just leave off part of the hinged flap to the front section on the base, and curve the top rearward section downwards with a larger gap for air space rearward and space for ash in the shallow rearward section to work down and out.

Your Dad's ashpan is overly complicated and flawed in design for air flow in the correct places, and doesnt get rid of ash under the last 2/5ths of the pan which will accumulate and eventually restrict the proper burning of the rear of the fire plus overheat the firebars.

Cheers,

Julian

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Hi Julian,

It seemed to me that the rearward shoot was to keep ashes from falling onto the rear axle through the back open section of the pan and still allow for air flow. The downside to this would be that burning ashes might fall directly onto the track, at least in this portion of the pan. Any suggestions?

The ashpan for the Super Simplex is a bit different. No hinged flap. What do think of that design?

David

[nigel Hyde 1Participant @nigelhyde1]

From john hyde
Yes, the rear chute is possibly superfluous…however, I just modified the original ME design…and it stayed!
?I was very limited as to what I could do rearwards on the ashpan as the back axle passes directly below the back half of it.The ash pan on mine is inserted up, at an angle, over the back axle and between the horns (I think Martin Evans actually designed it originally to be fixed?)
I decided to draw additional air in by attaching the additional lower chute.When running, this chute is below the back axle!
The ashpan was in use for about 20 years and the grate is the original 1/8″ x 1/4″ version.
Yes, sorry, overly complicated, but it worked. My other locos have the luxury of an ashpan that was designed to drop straight out.
Sorry if it meets with disapproval, I just passed on the results of my experimenting to get a poor steamer steaming!

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi David,

Pete's design as fitted to his Simplex is worthy of study. Pete doesnt appear to have seen the recent replies here, but his new grate and ashpan has been descibed with excellent pics on the modeleng.proboards.com forum. I will give Pete a 'nudge'.

The Simplex and Super Simplex ashpan as designed is not ideal. Rather like smokebox pipework arrangements, it is something easier to draw, but when you get the stage of making the bits other better possibilities are apparent with a bit of nouse.

It is a problem encountered by all designs with a rear axle under the firebox.

Dont worry about it till you have finished your boiler, then with a bit of thought and pondering I am sure you will work out a decent arrangement in due course.

Cheers,

Julian

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

Hi Julian,

Yes, I have seen Pete's design. I have saved all of his photos! His design is clever, but, it seems it is not possible to clear the ashpan without dumping the fire simultaneously. His design features the hinged door of the original Simplex design. It looks like when this door is opened to remove the ash, the grate tips forward and dumps the fire at the same time! Is this a good thing?

I have the same exact piece of stainless steel grate material from Blackgates.

By the way, my boiler work progresses! I will soon be silver soldering the tubes to the firebox tube sheet.

David

[doubletopParticipant @doubletop]

Are we talking about my tipping ashpan? My primary reason for doing it this way was the Martine Evans design made no provision for dropping the fire in an emergency and as a relative newcomer I wasn't happy with that situation. Not being able to remove the ash during during a running day was a minor inconvineince. For those who haven't seen my approach to the problem photos below. I make use of the existing ashpan and one of the lateral bars on these stainless grates as a pivot so the whole grate can tip and drop the fire out of the hatch in the aspan. A case of making use of what I had in front of me.

In use there is one minor drawback if you use too large lumps of coal the thing can jam. But you shouldnt be using large lumps anyway. It also needs a bit of fettling of the stays so there aren't any over long ones protruding into the firebox. Not too much fetling though….

Pete

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