Rolleiflex flashgun

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The flash gun to my 2.8F Rolleflex camera has gone duff, I opened it up and the Nicad pile battery is sulphated. Crystals formed outside the casing of the battery which is dead. No doubt I will not be able to replace as a Nicad but hopefully a similar type. As it is a pile battery 35mm dia. x 29mm long, where do I look?

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

[brian roberts 2Participant @brianroberts2]

You could Google search for NiMh (Nickel metal hydride) cells. They have less memory effect than NiCds and can use the same charger.

Good luck

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I would probably start browsing here: **LINK**

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&r=t&searchTerm=pile+nimh+battery

The search filters are pretty good, as is the documentation.

MichaelG.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

There used to be company at M E Shows specialising in batteries.

They made me up a replacement for for my Rollei 140 at a reasonable price.

But, of course with Lockdown, they've not been around and weren't at the Fosse last week.

Might be worth looking for batteries for model boats or aircraft.

Howard

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Try the Component Shop, based in Wales. Good Luck Noel

[peak4Participant @peak4]

When I wanted a NiMh battery stack for my M&W Micro 2000 micrometer, I used AllBattery.
Seamed reasonably priced, with quick delivery
https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/battery-technology/nimh-button-cell.html

Bill

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

PP3 rechargables have a pile in them.

PS you will have to replace the black -ve wire as well, the gunk travels up it and turns the copper inside the sheath black.

Edited By Dave Halford on 18/10/2022 19:28:29

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Clive, I forgot to ask, how many cells in the stack, or what voltage is it?

Bill

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Hi Bill it has 3 cells, it's dead so I cannot measure it. I have just cut the shrink sleeve around it and it has leaked white powder all through the pack

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 18/10/2022 22:24:30:

Hi Bill it has 3 cells, it's dead so I cannot measure it. I have just cut the shrink sleeve around it and it has leaked white powder all through the pack

£ cells will give you the overall voltage of 3.6v @ 1.2v per cell, but it's a long time since I saw any as big a diameter as that.

This one would fit in the space available, but only 26mm diameter
https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/nimh-battery-pack-3x-v350h-3s1p-st4-3-6v-350mah-mbh0067.html

Varta's catalogue now only goes up to V300H, rather than the one above at 3 x V350H cells.
https://www.varta-ag.com/fileadmin/varta/industry/downloads/products/nickel-metal-hydride/FOLDER_Rechargeable_NiMH_Button_en.pdf

These Varta V350H are listed at AllBattery, and cheaper, but not tagged together and also out of stock, so maybe not made any more.
https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/nimh-industrial-battery-v330h-1-2v-330mah-abh2804.html

Maybe the best option;
It looks like you could stack 3 of these together and get a larger capacity of 600mAH
https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/nimh-button-cell/type-varta-v600hr.html
Since this firm offers specials, they might weld them together into one battery stack for you, which will probably be higher capacity than your original ones.

Several other firms list V600HR individual cells, but are out of stock
This outfit claim to have them with ring tags, so you can solder up your own stacks, but also list a conductive glue at the bottom of the page; I've never used it or the company myself
https://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_industrial_nimh.htm#NC-4-5AA

What make/model of flash is it? Electronic strobe, or for setting off flash bulbs?

Bill

 

Edited By peak4 on 19/10/2022 01:43:15

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Hi again Bill, it's a Rolleiflex flash gun, I have had it since new, maybe mid 70's. Matches the Rollei 2.8F camera I have. I never see the Rolei flash guns of that age for sale anywhere.

I will follow up the recomendations you have offered. Clive

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That nice Mr Butkus might have a manual for the flashgun

**LINK**

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/rollei/rollei_flash_units/rollei_flash_units.htm

but I will leave it you, Clive, to recognise the specific model

MichaelG.

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

Clive , Are you sure they Nicads and not DEACS ?

Trevor .

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Posted by Trevor Drabble on 19/10/2022 08:38:07:

Clive , Are you sure they Nicads and not DEACS ?

Trevor .

What's the difference?

I thought DEACS were a manufactures name for circular Nicad packs used in R/C models many, many years ago.

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Posted by Trevor Drabble on 19/10/2022 08:38:07:

Clive , Are you sure they Nicads and not DEACS ?

Trevor

Edited By Howi on 19/10/2022 09:36:54

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

Howi , Yes , that's my recollection too . Think it was the German manufacturers initials and also don't know if they were of nickel cadmium construction. What I can't remember is what the voltage per cell . I think it may have been 1.2 volt . My point was that if it was lower than that , then wondered if replacing them with Nicads may damage the circuitry.

Trevor .

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Trevor Drabble on 19/10/2022 08:38:07:

Clive , Are you sure they Nicads and not DEACS ?

Trevor .

From a different forum, though the info looks correct from what I recall; in Clives case 3 cell not 4, so 3.6V

It looks very like the old airborne Ni-Cad batteries we used to use in the 1960s. These were 4 cell, giving 4.8v, and were a distinctive button cell, initially made by the Deutsche Edison Akkumulatoren Company GmbH. So they were generally known as DEACs (even when they weren't made by them…!

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Q.E.D.

**LINK**

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/deac_nickel_cadmium_akkumulat.html

MichaelG.

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

Thank you for another excellent link Michael .

Trevor.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Thank you Michael, the flash identifies as model E19.

I have printed off the user manual and the spec. says the battery is NIcad 5v223 mAh.

I can now follow up Bills pointers.

Thank you

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Generally NiMH cells are easily substituted for Nicads because they're both about 1.2V per cell. I don't think the flash will care one jot if NiMH are used, but the new battery should be recharged with an NiMH charger, not a Nicad charger.

If an exact equivalent to the original battery can't be found, it's easy enough to make a stack of 4. The main problem is fitting them into the space provided.

In general NiMH are all round better than Nicads – they hold more charge, store longer, and aren't ruined by 'memory effect'.

Dave

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I have had a reply back from, All Batteries, no go with them as they have no batteries to suit.

As SOD says perhaps make up a pack to fit the space in the casing? which batteries though.

Thanks to all who have contributed to my query.  Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 19/10/2022 22:17:15

[Clive SteerParticipant @clivesteer55943]

Clive

If the battery voltage is IRO 3.6V you might consider changing to a single Lithium cell which for the same storage capacity can be much smaller than equivalent NiCad/NiMH cells. A very cheap lithium cell charge control circuit can be purchased from eBay and this allows you to use a standard mobile phone charger. I don't know what mechanical changes may be needed but if push comes to shove the charge controller circuit board can be fitted in a small external adaptor.

CS

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Back home again and able to comment further, but not sure how helpful this is.
My aforementioned M&W Micro 2000s & Microstat were originally supplied with a NiCad stack of either 3 or 4 button cells depending upon the model.
The folk who now maintain them, and supply spares, sell NiMh as a direct replacement, and assure me that everything will be fine.
Up to press, that appears to be the case.
Previously I've made sure that I only charge NiMh batteries in a NiMh charger, though I do sometimes charge NiCads in a more modern NiMh charger.
They, are all larger cylindrical NiCads from AAA to D, rather than button cells.
One of my early NiMh chargers actually has a switch to set the charging schedule depending on the battery technology; the later ones claim to work with either.

Battery University does suggest that NiMh in a NiCad charger can overheat, but I don't know how much this applies to the smaller button cells, which will have a very low trickle charge rate, and originally be designed for it.
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-408-charging-nickel-metal-hydride

Since NiCads are all but unavailable in the size you need due to H&S regs re the Cadmium part (a bit like silver solder), it's all a bit of a moot point

I can only suggest a suck it and see approach and try a NiMh stack, but monitor how the flash gun charges the cells, with volt & ammeters as well as a non contact thermometer.
You can measure the mAh charge rate, and knowing the capacity, should get a good idea of the charge time(ish)

If need be, one could always use a timer to prevent over charging; I suspect leaving them on permanent charge would be bad for either technology.

Bill

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