Return of the Shaper

[IanTParticipant @iant]

For hand shaping – "Bouquets for the humble shaper" by Dick Assender (ME 5th April 1991) is a very good introduction to what is possible with a small manual shaper – and he's realistic about the effort involved…

I think the best write up though was by a New Zealander (in a rival publication I think) whose name I also cannot recall I'm afraid but I do recall he covered the subject extremely well.

Regards,

IanT

[IanTParticipant @iant]

A very smart Shaper Colin – I'm really not sure I want to show anyone my poor old Acorntools after that…

Regards,

IanT

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Ian,

Thank you. Its surprising what a good couple of coats of red lead undercoat and decent enamel top coat can do. There are some good close up pictures of a Corbett XL on the lathes.co.uk site.

Colin

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Nige on 07/08/2017 14:52:42:

What sort of 'depth of cut' would you use on EN1A or similar if you were say putting a flat on a cylinder?

For a hand shaper work on 20 square thou per stroke. So with an auto feed of 5 thou which is common you can put a DOC of 4 thou. Beware visitors to you shed who think they are so tough they can put on a deep cut and force it through. That's how they get broken/

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael-w on 07/08/2017 18:15:38:

These adept machines do appear to be pretty good, as really they may not take up that much room at all, and very affordable from what I've seen on ebay, you can pick one up for just under a couple of hundred notes.

Typical eBay ripoff! I got mine for less than a pony

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by IanT on 07/08/2017 19:35:52:

I think the best write up though was by a New Zealander (in a rival publication I think) whose name I also cannot recall I'm afraid but I do recall he covered the subject extremely well.

That was probably Bill Morris!

Strange but true, MEW 258 has one of Bill's lathes on the cover. he might be willing to revisit shapers, although perhaps it's someone else's turn?

Neil

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

eBay ripoff! I got mine for less than a pony

And you need to be very selective. Some are expensive boat anchors, or needing a lot of work to get them in a sensible state for working.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I currently have three shapers, not counting a partly completed 1/12 scale model. I did have four, but passed one on to some friends who are building up a sort of steam museum. The current members of the family are a 7 inch AMMCO machine, a 10 inch Alba, and an 18 inch Alba. The AMMCO is a bench top machine.

I wrote a couple of shaper articles that were published in the ME a few years back, but gave up writing for ME while David Clark was editor, and I still don't know what happened to most of the articles submitted during that time.

One of the articles published was about shaping with the work between centres, while another was about a curve cutting attachment.

John

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

I had an instructor while serving my time, who was a toolmaker and had worked all over the world, including Boeing in the USA, and who was nearing retirement age. He despised shapers with a passion, i asked him one day about working with shapers and his response was unprintable here !

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by not done it yet on 07/08/2017 21:53:19:

And you need to be very selective. Some are expensive boat anchors, or needing a lot of work to get them in a sensible state for working.

Hope you are not referring to your latest interesting acquisition. Would have bid on it myself if it had been nearer or the seller had been forthcoming about shipping it.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

With modern cobalt tooling a shaper can get through some amazingly tough jobs, often without resharpening

It's biggest asset is it does stuff FLAT, proper flat, and 90 degrees, proper 90 degrees, without much effort

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

1978 Boxford 8", well the metric S200 version.

Table extension, large capacity rack vice fitted. 2 pieces of nasty flame cut steel long enough just for full stroke extension. Got 5 Dickson/Bison toolholders out of 1 piece, so you're looking at the start of 10 holders.

Table top extension also allows fixturing of Vertex 6" HV rotab and tailstock centre.

Swarf, 2 very different types.

Bottom pic is roughing out, probably a 0.040- 0.060" DOC.

Top pic is fine finishing with a shear tool, not more than 0.002-3" pic does not do the stunning finish this tool gives.

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

I have a Boxford 8″ shaper and love using it when I can. You can get a great finish when machining flat surfaces. I made some quick change tool holders for the lathe with it. It’s also great to watch and sort of mesmerising. It’s certainly not a fast machine to use though. It is heavy but has a small foot print.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Bazyle,

The comment was specifically in reply to the Adept shaper offerings on epay. They are the common over-priced offerings I have seen. I thought a ton was too much for the one I bought – at the time. You would have got it, had you bid on it.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I recently got a Royal shaper, having got rid of a very large machine a year or two ago. I have a very soft spot for shapers and they are really quite cheap, compared with other machine tools. OK not as versatile as a vertical mill but surprisingly they do things that most people never think of as possible.

My machine was in pretty fair shape except for play in the cross slide screw and nut plus similar in the tool downfeed. I am sorting these out and generally cleaning up the machine and look forward to some hypnotic shaping.

Andrew.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

A friend has one for doing keyways. Works really well for odd sized keys and in places where you cant get a through broach.

Neil

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I think their elusiveness comes down to the fact that many of the jobs it does can be done with just a hack saw and files, okay, a lot of effort involved with that and you might not be brilliant at it, but it will do the same job.

Milling and turning would be very difficult to replicate the results with just hand tools. Milling can perform most of the roles a shaper can and mill pockets and enclosed spaces. Turning would just be downright awkward to do without a lathe of sorts.

Michael W

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by not done it yet on 07/08/2017 21:53:19:

eBay ripoff! I got mine for less than a pony

And you need to be very selective. Some are expensive boat anchors, or needing a lot of work to get them in a sensible state for working.

My Number 2 is immaculate, hardly worn, just has a replacement lever and the original angle plate was missing.

Strange thing is that all the Adept shapers are very good for their capacities.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael-w on 08/08/2017 11:37:01:

I think their elusiveness comes down to the fact that many of the jobs it does can be done with just a hack saw and files, okay, a lot of effort involved with that and you might not be brilliant at it, but it will do the same job.

The one real job mine has done was an accurate 70-degree internal dovetail. File and hacksaw would have struggled – a lot!

A previous version done on a mill using an end mill and angle vice was not as good because it didn't have a sharp internal corner.

Next job is likely to be a very large gear.

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

At the mill we did a similar thing with a 24" stroke shaper and an air grinder to grind hard faced wear plates. We only did it on night shift as the noise was horrendous!

Posted by Nobby on 07/08/2017 15:40:48:

Hi Guys
I have a Drummond hand shaper . At work in the 70s there a 36" shaper I used to machine circular grooves in a mould for round components,

Edited By Nobby on 07/08/2017 15:41:21

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

This thread has been an education all on its own and probably increased the value of 2nd hand shapers at the same time

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

Shapers were in general use before low cost carbide tips were available. During my tool room years I used one a lot for getting black tool steel slabs flat and square as a preliminary process to machining press tool dies. This was done with HSS toolbits in a holder and these could easily be sharpened. I have an Elliott 10m shaper and it is very useful for preparing work for the minimill quickly as it is usually set up with it's own homemade vice and can be used instantly. I used it to machine down some old leaf spring steel, which I couldn't anneal satisfactorily, that would almost certainly damage any milling cutter. Colin

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

As an Apprentice, I had the frustrations of setting the position and the stroke of a couple of shapers. The one in the Toolroom had to be hand started by switching between Star and Delta connections once it was running.

I often wish that I had one, (Would have to be a hand powered one) but wonder

a) Where would I site it? and

b) How much would I use it? (Can already cut small keyways with the Slotting Tool on the lathe)

Just think what you could do with a CNC one!

Howard

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Some shapers are better than others for setting up. The larger Albas (14 and 18 inch at least) have a feature where you don't have to open the door and mess around inside. Instead there is a knurled collar and a square on the end of the bull wheel shaft on the drivers side. You loosen the collar and turn the square with the crank handle. I much prefer this to putting my hands inside the machine to adjust the die block directly.

I know the conventional wisdom is not to use carbide on interrupted cuts, but I have had good success with using it on shapers. The carbide I use is some triangle inserts with no coating and no holes that were left on the table at the club years back. Apparently they were unsatisfactory for whatever they had been bought for at someones work. Anyway, silver soldered onto a key steel shank they have been very useful on the shapers and don't seem to chip.

John

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