Over the Counter

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

I’m responding to the thread about buying rubbish.

My first picture shows one end of a blade straight from the packet. 

What is not so clear is that –

 

The pin visible in the picture was about to drop out.

 

There was no pin in the other end of the blade.

The blade was bent in two directions, probably due to packaging constraints.

Judging from the smell and the dirty brown colour, I suspect that the oil protecting the blades from rusting was used engine oil.

 

My second picture. 

This shows a section of a new `Super . . .’ blade photographed towards its centre, which is more to the right of the picture.

In discussing a replacement, the suppliers email quotes ” . . . our `Super . . .’ brand which is more premium . . .”

As you can see, the tooth profile is totally useless. In fact when compared with the first blades, their `Super . . . ‘ blades are even softer. Having disappeared almost completely, the condition of the teeth is quite obvious.

What is really disappointing however, is that the teeth deteriorated after only 15-20 seconds of use while trying to cut MS (mild steel).

My third picture.

 

This is a picture of the blade I almost threw away. It was re-installed into the saw and was used to finish cutting the mild steel mentioned above.

You may ask “What is so special about the original blade?” I can assure you that it has been used for hours of sawing, and would be at least 30 years old!!!

Sam

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

What you buy, may not meet your expectations. This is my gripe about getting home to find a packet of rubbish. The first blades were Made in China, the second packet showed Made in Taiwan.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Hi Sam, I,v had similar results with 12″ Chinese blades, The local second hand shop has a few tools, and they had some bundles of Chinese blades for about NZ50 cents for 6 blades, they hade well formed teeth until you used them, OK on aluminium.

Junior blades, I get Eclipse blades, even they are a bit variable in kerf width. I use them in a power hacksaw, driven by a hot air engine, and must have minimum friction. It takes about 15-20 min to cut through a 1/2″ bar of mild steel.

Don’t think the Chinese blades are too common here, and my local supply gives me good quality blades for $2 ea, 1/2 price of normal retail.

Had a double sided 12″ blade that belonged to mums father (he was a Plumber in Paisley Scotland, he retired in 1950), its had many hours of work, and is now in a museum. Ian S C

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Sam you too are the victim of those pesky little varmints the ‘account-ants’. Their religious chant is ‘Never mind the quality maximise the bottom line’ and their mantra ‘Sell dirt cheap the idiots will buy it’.   I am on the last of my box of Dingdong’ blades as I have got about 4 left. These came from the US of A via Canada as a gift for my 35^th birthday.  Got some very queer looks from a’ two ringer’ from H.M.C&E, when I went to pick them up at the GPO depot, but that is another story.
In the UK there is the ‘Sale of Goods’ act. Problem is getting hold of the Trading Standards Officer. They are very well protected by their ‘Front desks’/ other ‘flack stoppers’ and they are always ‘In Conference’ which means they are either ‘down the pub’ or have ’skived off’ to watch the ‘footie’.

Edited By Richard Parsons on 10/11/2010 11:09:01

[Anonymous]

The other problem with trading standards officers is that they will be completely clueless as to the technical issue you are complaining about. I tried to complain once about some castings from a ME supplier, but since the trading standards officer had absolutely no idea what a casting, or a machine tool, was I gave it up as a bad job. And just resolved never to buy from that supplier again.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

If it has not got Eclipse or Starrett on the packet I do not buy, it is not the accountants, it is the ignorant and often arrogant traders you are buying from. Just stop buying from them and watch them go out of business.

[adyParticipant @ady]

The eclipse ones I got have been great.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

KWIL – careful about Starrett brand name – they are now sourcing many items from China, and selling  junk under the Starrett name. I got badly bitten on a measuring tool from them. I ordered it expecting the usual made in USA high quality with the Starrett name and instead got really rough very low quality Chinese garbage with bad grinding, no dimensional control and choppy rough threads. Never again.

 

I don’t know whether the Starret saw blades are still made in the USA. If they are, they are well worth the money and I agree they were always good. These days though if they are made in China you may get good ones but you may not. I have actually bought some very cheap Chinese made saw blades and they were extremely good, but most are really bad, so I don’t buy the cheapies any more. I buy all my saw blades at an industrial supply, and if they are ever bad I can return them, complain, and likely get my money back. So far I haven’t had to, their stuff is good to begin with (because they don’t want you back complaining oor talking to others in the business, about bad stuff.)

 

I had exactly the same experience with a Fowler brand bore gauge I bought for work. Again Fowler was a great USA made brand, but now they are offering Chinese low quality stuff at a premium price. On this bore gauge, the two rest buttons, which determine the unit’s accuracy directly, were PAINTED die cast zinc with huge parting line flash. On traditional Fowler bore gauges these would be ground hardened steel and would last a lifetime even with heavy use. The bore gauge was so bad I couldn’t even assemble some width adapters in the frame, the sizes were wrng and the finish horrible. I sent it back, but only got a partial refund as I had to pay a restock fee of 25%. Never again. JD

[EddieParticipant @eddie]

Hi All

I have two questions

Do you complain in the shop?

Do you check before you buy?

Eddie

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Yes

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

   

Eddie – Where I used to live to go into a store to complain and the manager was NEVER available. The shop assistants would call in ‘Security’ would grab you and physically sling you out often without your shopping/what-ever. Cut up rough or Grump to the ‘Bill’ and it was an automatic ASBO. As to being able to examin anything.  It is all pre-wrapped and “If we undo the package we cannot sell it”. 

 

Once they have your money you are stuffed. I bought a packet of 2 1/2” nails in B&x, paid for it and before I left the stores I opened the packet –something seemed wrong- It was they were all different lengths. The ‘Goon’ grabbed the opened packet and my boxwood slip gauge, called his mate and they bundled me out of the door. The HQ’s Customer care wrote me a stiff letter when I complained, excusing their ‘Goons’ as I looked like a trouble maker I would have been . I have not shopped in there or in any of that chain since.My tale of “A U.K chain shoe retailer tried this on me as a trouble maker etc” (see the thread “Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!”. The “beaks” threw the case out –Both shoes were left footed!. The TSO was not interested, why should it be it might have to do some work.  But the Bill still gave me an Official Caution ‘for complaining too vigorously’. Do not trust anything! Or anyone! All they want is your money!

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Guys,

There is something that not been mentioned yet and that is straight forward down right FAKES. It is not unknown for name brands to have sham products sold as the real thing, and it not just CDs from China, even critical safety items like brakes have been sold as genuine. 

chriStephens 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, buy with your credit card. They will take complaints more serious then.

 

Regards Nick.

[Alexander13Participant @alexander13]

The best hand hacksaw blades I have ever used and now the only ones I will use are made by Bacho in Sweden, I have found they last better and cut better than even Eclipse.

Edited By Alastair Nicoll on 10/11/2010 19:53:10

[Anonymous]

Even more worryingly it is not unknown for spares for commercial aircraft and engines to have all the ‘correct’ paperwork but turn out to be fakes.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

In my case, there are no straight answers to Eddie’’s questions.

When there’s an

email address and a quality guarantee printed on the packet, why waste time with the retailer and their rehearsed excuses?

Regards,

Sam

Edited By Sam Stones on 10/11/2010 21:12:45

[EddieParticipant @eddie]

Hi

Normal conversation is sometimes not a solution, word of mouth advertising has more punch. The owner had the attitude. IF you dont like it, take your money elsewere. I had a situation once where I had to resort to a letter to the local press, I said  “I cannot advise you against this shop but cannot recommend this product sold by them, and I will never buy it again from the local store, worth about R1000, or 100 pound, I battled to get a refund on a defective product, the newspaper landed Thursday morning on street. By Lunchtime The manager phoned me and said I can get my cheque when I want it, Sorry I do not accept cheques, as the notice in the shop say they “We do not accept cheques”…

He delivery the cash at my house that evening. I got my money but still say I do not recommend his shop, unless he respect the user right to complain.

He later moved to a smaller shop.. Less purchases less cash in the till…

For me it worked.

Eddie.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Agree about Swedish BAHCO, they also make very good files [actually some made in Portugal]. Not the cheapest but they do last unlike the loose packed “files” you see at the shows.

[Ray LyonsParticipant @raylyons29267]

Hi,

On the subject of saw blades. Does anyone know where I can purchase pinned metal cutting blades for a scroll saw. Using the old coping saw blades is great for wood but the only metal cutting I have found are for a fretsaw but they don’t fit. I would like to be able to cut up to 5mm mild steel.

 

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Perhaps Richard rubs people up the wrong way?

 

I have never had a problem with returning faulty goods, except for one very reputable ME supplier who would not change a casting without a receipt. A bit narky really as the casting was obviously duff (a flywheel dished by about 1/4″ when it should have been flat) and it could hardly have come from anyone else!

 

Neil

[Major DisasterParticipant @majordisaster]

Can’t see any problem in the original post.

It is quite clear that the blades have been extensively quality control tested at the manufacturers.

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

Re the last post,,,and my nanny is the Queen of England !!!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Larry… I'm not sure trawling through and dredging up seven year old threads to make wisecracks is adding a great deal to the forum…

Neil

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

This unexpected revival has indicated that either I didn't know how to include pictures with text, or it/they were removed. Then again I was new to the forum.

Here are the missing images.

Regards,

Sam

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

And I thought that plasticene was hard to get these days!

Remember what is apparently written in the visitors book of theatrical digs that are bad,

"And I shall tell all my friends" A happy customer is a good salesman.

Howard

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