New Mill – Starter Tooling

[VicParticipant @vic]

Fly cutters are also very useful and give a good finish.

**LINK**

A roughing mill may also come in handy.

**LINK**

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Harold Hall,s book…"Milling a Complete Course"

One or two people have recommended this book to me as ideal for the beginner. When I went searching for it I found a number of reviews and quite a number of them were quite negative. I know you always get this with reviews but some suggested it is not an ideal beginners book.

I have quickly found with the lathe that the best way is to get stuck in and have a go but I have had some good pointers from books, video and you guys. It would be nice to have some guidance and just wondered if this book is a good place to start.

[VicParticipant @vic]

It’s not a bad book Ron. It covers the basics in the early pages whilst being a “project book” which has items to make that may be useful to the Mill owner. Early on it covers making T nuts, clamps and parallels etc and how to use them. Later projects are more advanced and therefore more complex and time consuming like making Harold’s grinding table. The book is well illustrated with plenty of photographs and drawings. How useful it may be to any particular mill owner is hard to say though.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ron Laden on 06/10/2018 16:07:36:

Cutting tools, that seems to be a subject in itself..?

…

Some argue that HSS tooling is better suited to the mini-lathe than carbide is, is the same true of mini-mills..?

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 06/10/2018 16:09:23

Yes, though it's not black and white. Compared with classic kit Chinese machines often have higher spindle speeds that suit carbide. But they rarely also have the power and rigidity needed to get the full benefit. The carbide vs HSS debate is in a twilight zone.

Personally, I like carbide. On my lathes (starting with a mini-lathe), I use it more than HSS mainly because indexed tips are convenient and easy. They also deal well with hard surfaces like those sometimes found on cast iron. On the other hand HSS often gives a better finish and will take more delicate cuts, which I do about 15% of the time.

I have a WM18 with an 1100W motor, max speed 2400 rpm. I'd describe it as a big mini-mill and prefer not to push it too hard. When milling I mostly use HSS with a few carbide cutters in reserve for roughing steel and similar hard work. On a mill, at least the way I use mine, the convenience that makes indexed cutters attractive on a lathe is much less evident, the main exception being the indexed boring bars I use on both lathe and mill. I might reconsider if I worked a lot more with hard steel.

Making a start with a mini-mill you won't go far wrong with HSS.

Dave

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks again guys for all the advice.

Just thinking ahead for when I have the mill I will get started with a decent quality 6mm and 10mm end mill. Going forward if I go for one or two RC-3 tools are they readily available..? I have looked at 3 or 4 tool suppliers but they dont seem to list them, unless they are listed under some other heading.

Edited By Ron Laden on 08/10/2018 16:13:09

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Upto 6mm the FC-3 cutters are quite common. You can also get them to 10mm in some ranges but a 3-flute cutter in a non FC-3 form would be fine.

I tend to get my smaller ones from MSC when they are on special offer which is most of the time though not in this months sales flyer. Cutwel do them at a similar price. In the larger sizes the 3-flute from Arc are not a bad price

Edited By JasonB on 08/10/2018 16:25:40

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks for the links Jason, I am amazed at how reasonably priced they are.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Some good news, I dont have to wait until the new year to have my mill, I should have it next week.

On reading this thread one of the forum members (very nice guy) contacted me to say he was upgrading to a larger mill and his SX2P was for sale.

He is keeping the tooling for the new mill except for a clamping set which comes with the mill. It is 18 months old, had very little use (10-12 hours), great condition and fully working with no faults. I was a little hesitant, thinking no warranty and all that but after agreeing a fair price for both of us I am trusting that it will be fine.

It would be fair to say that I am a little excited..

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Congrats on the mill, I was going to suggest that if you buy new, see if you can get the seller to through in a couple of end mills or slot drills as discount(no harm in asking).

Ian S C

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Good news for you, if this size is the largest you will need, as the savings compared to new must be quite considerable.

The only question that would linger, with me, is why the guy decided it was too small after such a short time and whether one should have looked for a larger secondhand mill in the new year! But a deal is a deal and at least you might expect to be able to trade up in size, if necessary, for less total cost.

It will get you going and give you some experience earlier than expected. Maybe the seller can enlighten you on some of the tooling he has retained which was less needed, at the starting point, with the mill?

My advice, for what it is worth, is to buy better and fewer cutters (so avoid cheap sets of special offers), except, perhaps, for an initial set of cheap cutters if you think you may destroy them accidentally due to inexperience. In hindsight, sharpening kit was more important than actual cutters, back when I started with my lathe….

Until recently, I had sufficient end mills (of dubious quality) but never (it seemed) the size or type I needed for the current job.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I cant see me going for a larger mill unless we moved house, I have a tiny workshop (the only space I have) and I couldnt house a larger mill. Also for the type and size of machining I will be doing the SX2P should do me fine.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I received the ARC catalogue yesterday and noticed the Digital Readout Bars with Remote Readout, it seemed to me that they would be a very good addition to the mill.

The 300mm model is £35 which I thought very reasonable, a 300mm type should cover the Z axis and the same size for the X axis, the bars can be cut/adjusted to length as required. There is also bars with built in readout but I thought you would have to look around to the side of column for the Z reading unless it was fitted facing forward which is a bit more involved. They are not swarf or coolant proof and guards are recommended but they wouldnt be difficult to make and fit. The digital displays I thought could be mounted on a forward facing panel.

I will certainly look into those once I have the mill.

[ZebethyalParticipant @zebethyal]

Igaging Digital Readout Bars similar to the ones you mention were one of the first upgrades I made to my SX2.

Beware of mounting the readouts near the spindle – mine had a nasty habit of resetting to zero just at the wrong moment.

I then built an interface for the Yuriy's Toys Touch DRO app and bought a cheap Android tablet to run it on – this along with some shielded USB cables turned the scales into a fully functioning DRO for not a lot of money and by far the most valued upgrade I have performed.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Ron,

Well done. It's self perpetuating this muddle engineering lark is it not? In the space of a few short months you seem to have gone from relying on others to do machining jobs to advance your shunter, to putting up a shed, getting a lathe and now a mill. I am sure you will get hours of enjoyment from your investment. There is a lot of satisfaction to be had from making something.

Paul.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Zeb and Paul,

Paul I do think it is a bit of an addictive hobby. I could still ask people I know to make parts for me but its not quite the same assembling/building something from off the shelf or friend supplied parts.There will be parts that I still need my friends help or expertise with but having the lathe and now a mill that should become less and less. Looking forward to it.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thinking about the digital readout bars, I only considered fitting them to the X and Z. In practice would it be useful to have one on the Y as there is a 150mm version available. Not having used a mill, at the moment I dont know how useful it would be but I,m guessing it would be.

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 08:25:55

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 08:26:33

[Anonymous]

I can't see X and Z being a particularly useful combination. For 2-axis I'd fit X and Y. Then you can use it for co-ordinate drilling, milling and milling to a specific dimension. You're far more likely to do those sort of tasks rather than drill or mill to a specific depth.

I've only got X & Y on my vertical mill. I have a rule on the quill which is more than adequate for drilling to a given depth. When I need to mill to an accurate depth I use a micrometer and the dials on the knee.

Andrew

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I have two sets of separate readers – both connected to reading heads. One set for my lathe and the other for my smaller mill.They are close enough for most work, but while they read to 0.01mm, they are not necessarily as precise, or accurate, as one might think.

The other dro is one with the electronics to be able to easily fix postions for holes on a circle, to mill curves, etc. and read to 0.001mm. More expensive, yes, but better all round if one needs to use the included options. Not so much more expensive, actually and it may well be worth saving up the extra dosh before investing.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 10/10/2018 08:37:22:

I can't see X and Z being a particularly useful combination. For 2-axis I'd fit X and Y. …

Andrew

I wonder if Ron was thinking of the 'Y to the Sky' mnemonic as taught to kids drawing 2D graphs on paper? It's a jolly good way of remembering which axis is 'up' on a sheet of paper, but it fails completely in the real world, where 'Z' is up.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Probably not as he was talking about a 300mm scale and then mentions a 150mm if fitting to Y.

I would fit X&Y first then add Z if you feel the neeed.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks guys, I was thinking X and Z Dave, I at least know my X,Y and Z positions if nothing else…lol

So I will go with X and Y and fit Z if I think it is beneficial but sounds like probably not.

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 09:50:28

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

If I were you, I would be waiting and make up my own mind after finding out what is available and what you will actually need.

Think here of dro’s fitted by suppliers – do they fit only two axes or do they fit for all three axes? The answer may give you a clue as to which is preferred by users? I, for instance, would not mind separate heads for a 2-D lathe, but I would never fit separate heads on a 3-D mill again. In fact, my Centec has a knee as well as a quill, so actually has 4 readers. The quill is the separate one.

By following the advice of abc or xyz here, on the forum, you may end up with either something you didn’t want, or something you won’t ever need.

[Anonymous]

Posted by not done it yet on 10/10/2018 09:55:24:

By following the advice of abc or xyz here, on the forum, you may end up with either something you didn’t want, or something you won’t ever need.

Or even that of ndiy?

If it's not helpful to consider advice from the forum that rather makes the forum pointless. We might as well all go and do something more useful. Which is exactly what I'm going to do now.

Andrew

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I wont have the mill until next week and here I am thinking mods/upgrades but having just got the ARC catalogue it is nice to window shop, the mods will come later as I need to make a simple start and get used to the machine.

The mill comes with a clamp set so I just need a couple of cutters and collets to make a start, I happen to have some lengths of 40mm square alu bar so they will come in for some practice.

I need to get a vice and one or two people have mentioned getting a good vice which I can understand, but to keep within my start budget I was thinking of the 80mm basic one from ARC at £48, it looks ok, its got a removable swivel base and I didnt want to go for too big a vice to start with plus its not a large mill.

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 10:11:26

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 10:20:18

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/10/2018 10:22:58

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Also worth bearing in mind that these small benchtop machines do not have a knee so you can easily loose track of height when the head is raised unlike a bridgeport or centec where the knee handwheel dial can be used for the whole length of travel. The SX2P has no means of measuring Z height of the head only a dial for quill fine feed.This makes a Z axis DRO a lot more useful.

[Author]

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