New lathe arrived today : The ongoing saga

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Two problems with the slide spring to mind. One is that the force of the screws holding the tool in the toolpost can distort the slide. I have this problem in my small Hobbymat MD65 lathe but may not be applicable dependingon design. Try moving tohte tight spot then slackening the tool screws.

Secondly how many gib adjusting screw do you have. If at the start with slide at one end it will be just the end one or two that are in an appropriate position to have an effect. Then as you move in another gib screw is now coming into effect so only that one needs slackening off. Again a common problem that depends on the design but can be adjusted out quite easily.

To add to the previous posts re dimples. Remove one gib screw and look at the end. If it is squared off like a normal everyday screw then bad, worse it may not be very square at all just all over the place. However what you want is a gently pointed or round end that will fit into the dimple.

Edited By Bazyle on 06/10/2015 12:38:02

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Julian : all well and good but this is the lathe I have now so I have to make do with it. The only alternative is to use it as a doorstop and buy a Sherline lathe .

We have managed to sort out the other problems so there is no reason why this problem cannot be solved. I will admit that I should NOT be having these problems with a new machine but complaining about that now is as useful as complaining about the weather !

Bayzle : I have three gib adjustment screws on the side, each with a locknut. I think I see what you mean. I will have a play around with that in mind.

Edited By Brian John on 06/10/2015 12:36:58

Edited By Brian John on 06/10/2015 12:38:44

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Brian, did you see my added bit as you were typing as I edited. Your sliding part is short and the base long which is the opposite of my MD65 so my added comment is not very relevant.

I have looked at the parts diagram and you have a dowel part no 204 so ok there provided the gib is in the right way round.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

204 is grub screw to lock the cross slide in place should that be required. There is also one on the top slide.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 06/10/2015 12:35:28:

I will admit that I should NOT be having these problems with a new machine but complaining about that now is as useful as complaining about the weather !

.

Good attitude !!

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The Hobymat are still available under a different name and as lathes go not that bad really based on the one I had. I assume they are still as well made as they were

**LINK**

Catches

The next owner of mine over tightened a tool in the tool post they used to fit which clamped down directly onto the compound slide. It cracked the casting. They seem to have changed that.

If I did a lot of screw cutting I had to dismantle the dog clutch and clean it up with a file. I was screw cutting HSS though as used reamers were a cheap source of blank MT1 arbours

People sometime mess them up by adjusting the saddle fit due to not understanding how this works. Taken too far this can even wreck the lead screw nut. Mine was used by one owner for a few years and did need slides and saddle fit adjusting a touch when I bought it but I am a bit fastidious in that respect as I think it pays long term. It was usable as it came.The results it gave where excellent and in it's way a nice machine to use.

Price – well if you want what should be quality even in the hidden places unfortunately it has to be paid for.

I'm not suggesting Brian changes just answering comments like rubbish etc. Brian might not like the weight anyway. Personally I feel the lathe he is using suffers because of that aspect – exposed lead screws and short slides, probably hidden bits of the bed machined away. There will be other aspects as well. Fix this sort of thing and weight will go up. Fix the lot and I doubt if it would compete with the renamed Hobbymat. I'd tend to favour this one over Taig and Shereline but have never used a Shereline so can't comment really. Plus I have no idea if they are now as good as they were.

John

–

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

My next Lathe will probably be a Sherline as everybody who has one speaks highly of it. I cannot say that of any other brand (no names will be mentioned to protect the innocent !). I have received lots of private messages saying that they had lots of problems with this and that brand…quite big names too.

The only one nobody whinges about is the Sherline. They are made in the US and are not cheap so one would expect a quality product. It is also quite amazing what large items can be machined on this small lathe using their riser blocks. Have a look at their website sometime.

My Optimum lathe is a new model so there are bound to be some problems. Perhaps by this time next year, anybody who buys one of these will receive a problem-free machine. In the mean time. I will make do with the lathe that I have : problem solving is acquired knowledge.

The Hobymat lathes (as per the link above) look like a very high quality machine but they are not cheap. I doubt anybody sells them in Australia.

 

Edited By Brian John on 06/10/2015 14:13:59

Edited By Brian John on 06/10/2015 14:23:42

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Got a mate who has a Sherline Lathe, it was made in Australia, it's a good bit smaller than what you have, but there is some good stuff made on them.

The other year I was looking at smaller lathes, Jaycar had one the right size, only thing wrong it was a bit out of my price range at the time, don't remember the make, and I don't see it in last years NZ catalogue.

Sorry the photo's a bit fuzzy.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 07/10/2015 10:46:12

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I was not aware that Jaycar had ever sold lathes. We have a Jaycar in Cairns and I buy quite a few things from them but I have never seen a lathe in the store.

Did Sherline start off as an Australian brand ?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian John on 07/10/2015 11:02:16:

Did Sherline start off as an Australian brand ?

.

Brian,

This is an interesting read

MichaelG.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

A link that might interest you Brian – the real cost of German quality, I feel you have been a little miss lead in that direction. This is the cheaper one

**LINK**

The mini lathe – not much difference in price is there

**LINK**

I've just bought one of those used. There are several things I have noticed that have caused my eyebrows to rise even at this price. In fact if I had bought it new I would probably be annoyed however I was aware of what I was getting into and in real terms things are as expected. German products are just like any other countries output it varies and in some cases doesn't really deserve the reputation it has. I'd be more inclined to say often actually as I have spent much of my working life competing with them.

John

–

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

For that sort of money one would really expect a lathe to be problem free. That is way beyond the cost of most ''hobby'' lathes. The five year warranty seems to indicate that it should be without faults …at least the manufacturer thinks so ! What sort of problems did you encounter on your used lathe ?

Edited By Brian John on 07/10/2015 13:24:01

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There are a number of things I wont mention because they aren't worth worrying about that might be described as rather minor cost savings given the price. I do find that sort of thing annoying.

However

Bed design – there is no real reason why the bed couldn't have been designed to offer some main lead screw cover to prevent swarf from falling directly on it. They could have fitted a spring guard. They do on some models. I've bough a spring guard for it.

The cross slide could very usefully be a couple of inches longer, proportioned in that respect like real lathes are as I usually call them. I found that I couldn't face with a V tool when it was orientated for that as it couldn't reach the centre. The compound slide assembly can be moved to cure that but a longer lead screw and a simple extension that moves the feed handle out from the end of the slide would fix that – just as many lathes have.

A common problem that crops up if product designers are involved. The rack feed wheel is way smaller than it need be – probably so that it looks proportional to larger machines when it's photo'd. The other feed handles aren't too bad. I've bought another handle to fit to it – a myford one.104mm dia rather than 80 which will make a big difference for hand feeding.

This one is complicated in some ways. Swings and roundabouts. The cross slide is T slotted outside of the dovetail so they don't add anything to it's height. These often have the problem that if anything is bolted down to them the dovetails distort and jam up the slide. It can be ok if what ever is bolted down and the top of the cross slide are dead flat. This is usually part of the numbers game as adding the T slot thickness needed to the top of the slide reduces the swing over it. So in this case it would reduce it to around sub 100mm rather than 120mm unless the head centre height was increased to compensate. The biggest chucks they supply are 125mm but the spindle head is designed to fit 100mm din chucks/ to some din standard *. A 120mm swing via a 125mm chuck is pushing it really anyway. The top thickness of the cross slide is pretty low so the compound slide has a plate under it that is bolted down in the T slots rather than a more usual arrangement – no plate and sitting directly on it. That needs a thicker cross slide top – as it would be with normal T slots. With the arrangement they have used clearance has to be provided to get at the fixing bolts so the actual compound slide sits on a pillar leaving rather a lot of overhang. All in all especially when the rather short cross slide is included a pretty bad piece of design work.

They note that it will swing 220mm over the bed but cross slide travel is 100mm. I'd guess that it will be hard to get a tool in a functional position any where near that diameter. It usually is on lathes of this style.

* Not sure about the translation of the chuck fitting on the spindle. I gained the impression that it was to a din chuck size to allow direct fitting. 100mm plate with a 70mm register. I happen to have a 100mm chuck that I wanted to fit to it but the register is much larger than 70mm. Not surprising as they needed to get the scroll plate in. So not sure what standard it's to. It looks to me that it does need back plates what ever chuck is fitted. But then DIN are often a weird lot. It's probably a spindle nose standard.

I'll post a photo that shows the shear stupidity of the cross slide design shortly. Can't now as I wouldn't be able to post it unless it was already in my album. It has to be there before a post is started.

Anyway I was aware of what I was getting into also the fact that as it was German that there would probably be catches. I can't get my DTI every where I need to to check alignment but a 3 morse mandrel showed no error along the top. Better than the test sheet that came with it shows. 0.0001" dti but that states push the spindle home if the bearings are loose. My test mandrel does have a draw bar hole for that but I lack the bits to clamp it with as they have to go round rather than on the other end of the spindle.

John

–

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I think this illustrates the general problem with the numbers in the spec's game rather well. Cross slide wound right out. The compound slide can be moved right back to the end of it too. The rather narrow pillar under the actual compound can be seen. The shot expands on my comments about alternatives – thicker cross slide and less swing but greater rigidity when set like this. Also the overhand built into the compound slide.

At least it can turn up to the centre – unlike one I had some time ago. Done to make the centre distance look better in the specs – till some one came to actually use it.

All of those bits of dust like metal swarf suggests another problem too – settings or general rigidity. Other than trying it before buying I haven't used it yet.

No rust by the way. Some oxidised oil plus photo lighting effects.

John

–

Edited By John W1 on 07/10/2015 17:04:05

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Now that I have the correct size spanner I decided to remove the chuck to see what sort of fittings I have at the back of the chuck/backplate and examine the possibility that a generic face plate may fit. I used Ketan's suggestion of putting a larger spanner through the chuck jaws while applying pressure to the nuts with the correct size spanner (3/8 inch)…thank you Ketan. It worked very well but now what ? I thought the chuck should just pull off but it will not. I have tried tapping gently with a hammer against a piece of wood but it is not moving. Before I apply more pressure (or get a bigger hammer !) I thought I had better ask for some advice. 

The exploded diagrams in the manual do not seem to offer much help. I have called the company but they also said it should just come straight off. I am only tapping gently against the wood ; I am yet to give it a decent whack. I am reluctant to do so in case I have missed a step in the chuck removal process.

NOTE : they also suggested locking the cross slide when turning a diameter ie. machining the outer surface of a flywheel. This would solve the problem of excessive movement in the cross slide when it is at the extreme end closest to me. I should have thought of that myself !

Edited By Brian John on 08/10/2015 07:11:55

Edited By Brian John on 08/10/2015 07:14:22

Edited By Brian John on 08/10/2015 07:14:58

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Put the nuts back on loosly. Find a bit of flat metal to put between the headstock and the nut. Then undo each nut a fraction of a turn so they jack the chuck off against the metal packer. Once you have jacked one you wil have to slacken it off, rotate chuck to next one, etc.

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

Thank you, that should work. I will try it tomorrow as I have to go to work tonight

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Before following Jason's good advice -put a bit of wood under the chuck, save the bed! Then make a proper bed cover.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

You will probably find you can use the end of the spanner as a lever Brian against the partly undone bolts.

John

–

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

I used Jason's method and it was successful (I could not wait until tomorrow). Thank you to Gordon for his advice regards protecting the bed with timber and cloth. I see no need at this stage to remove the back plate which is held on with four socket caps. Does anybody recognise these fittings as generic ie. will any 80mm or 100mm face plate fit ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Brian it would help if you gave us the diameter of the recess in teh back of the chuck

[Brian JohnParticipant @brianjohn93961]

The recess is 3.4mm deep and 55mm in diameter.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks with a 55mm register are readily available here in the UK.

Beware! Some have an unsuitable  63mm register, also some have four fixing screws which should still work with your flange which is drilled for 3 and 4 mounting holes.

There are two sizes 80mm with M6 fixing screws and 62mm with M5 fixing screws.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 08/10/2015 12:47:03

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The biggest problem will be finding someone who sells 80-100mm faceplates as most lathes come with them (except yours)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Brian, can you just measure from the centre of the spindle hole to the chamfered edge of teh motor housing. It looks a bit less than 70mm (half your 140mm swing) as this will also determine what size faceplate will fit.

There is a man who has a cunning plan that I was also thinking of that may get you out of trouble.

[Author]

Posts