MYFORD

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by John Haine on 20/02/2018 10:33:24:

While are at it they could do away with the countershaft and fit a decent modern 3 phase motor and flux vector VFD for good torque at low speed, and maybe even eliminate the back gear to make the spindle properly balanced at high speed. Then get rid of MT4 in the headstock and make it an ER40 fitting so you can use sensibly priced collets. A chuck fitting that lets you run in reverse safely would be nice. How about ditching the complicated gearing for the PXF and using an electric motor instead – probably much cheaper. Fit rolling bearings on the feed screws for lower backlash. To be really radical, fit ballscrews & servos, eliminate the flimsy topslide, all the complication of the change wheels, make the feed handles drive encoders, and have a user friendly computer control system that makes the lathe appear to be a manual one if you want but with cnc when you're ready. Just think, any taper you like without tedious adjustment, all metric and imperial threads on demand (oh, wouldn't it be nice not to have any more discussions about how to cut metric threads on an imperial lathe…).

I'll just fetch my hard hat…

You could of course just buy a nice little HAAS TL1

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 20/02/2018 10:51:09:

As a Super 7 owner my take on the advantages of the S7 is it's flexibility. With a T slotted cross slide it becomes a horizontal boring machine. Adding a simple lever makes it a hand shaper. The headstock is simple to divide and a secondary spindle can easily be fitted to the boring table and you have a clock wheel cutter. Add a dividing head to the boring table on a vertical slide and you get yourself a gear cutter. Due to the legacy of it's long history there are numerous attachments designed for it of which I have built many which make it even more usefull.

To be fair, most of that is true of many other 'hobby lathes', in fact a t-slotted table is the hallmark of lathes intended for small workshops without milling machines.

As for redesign of the lathes, don't forget there is the Myford 254 a modern design and made to the same standards.

The fact is that the ML7/S7 became the de facto standard machine for model engineers in the 50s and 60s, becoming so ubiquitous that it would have been commercial suicide for Myford to make significant changes to the basic design. And why should they, if they had alternative machines for those who wanted a more modern machine?

Even the Connoisseur was seen as a big gamble, as they knew something was needed to keep the brand moving forwards, but they decided to be conservative and it was essential to keep it looking like the ML7/S7 family.

The truth is model engineers wanted Myfords that look like Myfords – and the 254 looks just like any far-Eastern machine.

The downside is that making the old style lathes takes a huge amount of skilled labour and hand fitting in contrast to modern machines designed to be rapidly produced using jigs CNC and stock bearings etc.

As labour costs rose the old-style Myfords became niche machines and the prices rose, ultimately sales weren't enough to support the company.

As the 'new' Myford have show there is still a market, but it can only support a low production rate with premium prices as each machine is effectively built to order.

It's completely analagous to the 'new' Jaguar E-type. A very good but competitively priced sports car when it came out, I am scared to look up teh price of one of the new production run of 'lightweights'.

Neil

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Thats a reasonable assesment Neil.

The way I read it is the spares operation kept the company afloat and with aging owners the incentive to modernise just wasn't there. With the death of one of the principles the company was voluntarily wound up, I assume so that the assets could be shared out. It didn't as some suggest actually go bust.

Owning a Myford is certainly not the only game in town and I would suggest that in many circumstances it's not the best choice given today offering. However the things that made it so usefull and successfull in the past still remain and cast a long shadow even in given the range of options available today.

All that said I'm not sure I would buy a new one, in fact I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, but given the options of a refurbished machine as a trade in for your old one I didn't need to.

regards Martin

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Posted by Hopper on 20/02/2018 10:10:33:

You make a good point though. If they are finding it difficult to find a supplier of the tapered bronze S7 bushing, why not get with the 21st century program and redesign for tapered roller bearings? Set of wheel bearings from a 4WD or light truck and away you go. But it may be they don't have the development staff for that kind of thing these days, just assembling the traditional parts to make the traditional machine.

From what I recall John Stevenson saying at the time of the demise of the 'original' Myford company all (or most) of the jigs just went for scrap. The reasoning being anyone setting up to do the job of machining say a headstock would take the raw casting and do it on a multi-axis machine in one hit and achieve far better accuracy.

When you have all the drawings then spares like the headstock bushing should be really easy to resolve, even quite local to 'the new Myford' or even totally in house. Plenty of casting expertise locally, plus material suppliers, plus loads of companies locally doing machining for medical, aerospace, automotive as well as the likes of Harrison / Boxford etc.

I for one certainly wouldn't spend 8000 quid on a Myford regardless of 'history' 'the name' or a shiny paint job. There are much more capable machines out there either new or secondhand for that price (and lower)  For a bit more money you are in a totally different league, for instance under £20,000 quid buys a Hardinge 'clone' new in the US. Not sure if anyone sells them in the UK.

**LINK**

 

Edited By Martin 100 on 20/02/2018 12:31:33

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Journeyman on 20/02/2018 11:18:58:

I'll just fetch my hard hat…

You could of course just buy a nice little HAAS TL1

John

The Haas TL 1 is not little.

Tony

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 20/02/2018 12:27:26:

Posted by Journeyman on 20/02/2018 11:18:58:

I'll just fetch my hard hat…

You could of course just buy a nice little HAAS TL1

John

The Haas TL 1 is not little.

Tony

It is compared to a ST-55

**LINK**

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

I see plenty of I would not buy a Myford at £8000 comments.

So what would you recommend please ?

I just want a similar size lathe of good quality.

Budget is £10k max.

PLEASE SEE NEW POST RATHER THAN CLUTTER UP THIS ONE.

 

 

 

Edited By Billy Bean on 20/02/2018 12:55:42

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

My history as an ML7 owner/user is summarised in my profile so I won't repeat much of that.

At the time I bought the ML7, I didn't know about the Boxford or the Littlejohn or even the M-type, they were out of my financial reach and they weren't often mentioned in the pages (e.g. the small ads) of the Model Engineer. But the ML7 was mentioned frequently and I was already pre-conditioned by having read Laurence Sparey's book. I didn't fancy a Gamage or a Randa or the like, though I freely acknowledge that lots of people have produced good work and, not a trivial matter, had FUN with them.

In the 47 years I've had my ML7 it has accompanied me through three house moves (and three marriages!). It has done all I have asked of it and any problems I have had have usually been between the operator's ears. And I've had both fun and the joys of achievement with it.  Its capabilities now are no less than they were when I first acquired it, in fact with the accessories I've added it can do more.

Soon after buying the machine, I contacted Beeston Myford who sent me the 'Notes on Operation, Installation and Maintenance also Pictorial Parts List' enclosing an invoice and asking that I remit its cost 'at my convenience', how was that for a good start?!?! Subsequent dealings with Beeston Myford were always a pleasure. Because I had built up a good set of accessories before the change of ownership, I haven't had many dealings with Mytholmroyd Myford but those I have have been business-like and trouble-free. I do regret that the appearance on the market of far-eastern-made clones of Myford accessories probably hastened the end of the Beeston Myford era – I confess to having bought one or two.

Well, that's my two penneth.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

NOTE TO MODERATORS: Billy Bean posted his latest while I was typing this – please transfer to the new thread at your discretion.

Swarf, Mostly!
 

Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 20/02/2018 13:10:57

Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 20/02/2018 13:12:59

[egaParticipant @ega]

Swarf, Mostly!

Thanks for pointing me to your interesting profile.

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Swarf, Mostly!

Thanks reply.

Up to my ears in it with house move so will read fully later especially profile.

Quick scan of above – on a lighter note – please do not  move house

BB

 

Edited By Billy Bean on 21/02/2018 12:46:32

[Anonymous]

Posted by ega on 21/02/2018 10:56:52:

Swarf, Mostly!

Thanks for pointing me to your interesting profile.

+1

Andrew

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Indeed, thanks Swarfy

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 20/02/2018 09:49:25:

Well they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and lathes.co.uk list at least 5 different far eastern clones of the Super 7 and ML7. All nowt to do with Myford.

**LINK**

There are some images on the second and third pages.

regards Martin

Yes, but those in the pics are all well over 30 years old.

Not very much like what the Far East are sending us now.

The letter from Myford re. ML7 bearings actually looks like an admission that they no longer have the capability to support existing product, never mind run ongoing product R&D.

I enjoyed using the Myford Speed 10 I ran for 15 years, but the capacity and features of the Chinese lathe I bought to replace it at about a quarter the cost of a Super 7 are so far superior that I'm afraid I think the writing's on the wall in letters of fire.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

8000 pounds sounded like a lot, so I looked up the currency converter and found that this is about the equivalent of 15000 New Zealand Dollars at the moment. This is what I could buy for that sort of money right now: **LINK**

John

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Swarfy – found time to read you profile – very interesting. Same type of apprenticeship as yourself – the electronics in my case being ASW on aircraft.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

John – I have one of those, although mine is currently sitting rather depressed against the wall lacking its three phase power supply.

Billy – The critical issue with the lathe John has linked to and other big lathes is not the weight of the machine itself, although you do need a solid concrete floor to stand it on, but the weight of everything that goes with it. The last chuck I bought, a grip-tru variant, came in at 40 kg. I haven't weighed it but I suspect the face plate weighs just about as much and things like steadies not much less.

If lifting weights is an issue, and it is rapidly becoming so for me, then going up too much in size with a lathe might not be such a good idea unless you have a good lifting and positioning system – if anyone has any good suggestions along that line I would be most interested.

In lathe sizes between there and the Myford it would be well worthwhile handling the chucks to see what weight you can comfortably lift and if possible go through the process of changing chucks, which is rather more of an issue than simply lifting one, to see whether it is physically possible now and potentially in a few years time.

That said there is a variety of designs of lifting equipment both on the market and in the magazines for the model engineer although I haven't yet found one that suits my requirements (which of course are for one that takes up no room and does everything). But you do need to be prepared.

Pero

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Well, I wasn't really thinking that anyone should get one of those as an alternative to a Myford, it just seems to me that 8000 pounds is a bit on the high side for what a Myford is.Ideally you want a lathe that is suited to the size of things you intend to make. I have an ML7 myself, it has been in the family since new, (in 1953) and gives every satisfaction, but I don't think I wold be paying that sort of money to replace it if it disappeared somehow. I know some people have a prejudice about the Chines stuff, and sure, they have their faults, but my Chinese mill has been pretty good.

John

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Hi John

I wasn't really suggesting anyone rush out and buy one of these, unless you have a specific need. The comment was really around the rapid increase in the weight of accessories as lathes (and mills) increase in size. It's something that is easy to overlook if going down the oft suggested route of 'get the biggest lathe you can afford/will fit in your shed'.

I can still lift reasonably heavy objects, although I have noticed that things are getting heavier over time. In my case the problem is old injuries to both wrists that make some twisting movements difficult and these tend to get worse not better with time. This means that I can lift a big chuck/vise/rotary table up to lathe bed/mill table height – I just can't do to much with it when I get there!

Screwing the 100 mm screw-on chuck onto the Myford nose is a LOT different to aligning a 250 mm D1-6 chuck onto the big lathe, something I for one did not fully appreciate when I bought the big lathe. There are of course ways of working around it but it is something to consider when buying anything larger than a hobby size lathe.

Pero

[Author]

Posts