missing lathe parts on a drummond lathe? ID please

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

Hello, new to the forum.

Ive recently bought an old drummond lathe, and it seems to be missing the gears for activating the part of the lathe that automates the tailstock. ive not had a lathe before, but im a mechanicaly minded guy, so ill be able to fir the bits once im on their trail. Ill be needing new bearings to, as theres a bit of play in these.

will it be ebay for these? anyone point me i tne right direction of sizes etc?

photo's to follow

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Welcome to the forum, and to the wonderful world of Drummond lathes. I have an M-type Drummond as do several others on here. They seem to have quite a following for something so ancient. They must have done something right. Do you know what model you have?

Standard sources for info, other than this forum, are the website lathes.co.uk here **LINK**

and the Yahoo Drummondlathe group here **LINK** 

there is a good lot of info there in the Files section. Including a copy of the change gear chart for screwcutting and lists of the standard gear set for various models.

Best sources of parts seems to be eBay and the Yahoo group but supply is intermittent. Change gears do come uo for sale regularly but prices for a full set add up if you buy individually.

Yes please post pics. Would be interested to see what you have there.

Edited By Hopper on 31/12/2016 03:37:44

Edited By Hopper on 31/12/2016 03:39:51

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Definitely past my bobos time but will mention babbit as a potential option

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

"automates the tailstock" ? Do you have the right word in "tailstock"? It's the bit at the far right, thin end of the bed. No lathes under about 2 tons have an automated tailstock.
I suspect you have a "pre-B" or model from around 1910 which has a rod going down the middle of the lathe bed to a pair of gears at the right hand end which transfers the rotation to the leadscrew that is above the rod. I'm not sure if these are standard changewheels though anything would do if you are not trying to be original.

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

yes, my terminology wont be right for a while i guess.

here are the pics, its a case of trying to spot the missing pieces….

[img]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb121/beckyboo222/lathe%201.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb121/beckyboo222/lathe%205.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb121/beckyboo222/lathe%207.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb121/beckyboo222/lathe%204.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb121/beckyboo222/lathe%202.jpg[/img]

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Looks fun, Phil …

But please get that drive belt changed, before it hurts you !!

MichaelG.

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

I think quite a few things will need to be changed before its usable!

found a picture of a similar looking bearing on a drummond b type, that looks like its made of oilite or somthing similar. seems that the bearing is closed onto the shaft by pressure applied by the bolts.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Seems to me that it just needs changewheels for screwcutting and operating the saddle. Simple guards over the gears would be a good idea, especially for a beginner.

Useful looking lathe though.

Looking at the Lathes website this lathe seems to be an early Drummond 3.5 inch flat bed lathe 1902 -1912. There are many pictures that will help you see if anything else is missing and show how the bearings fit. It may be possible to line the existing bearings back to a reasonable fit.

Please keep us all up to date with progress.

Brian

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNfR1Ifig4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNfR1Ifig4

found this vid of a 1907 drummond, which looks similar. from the lathes.co.uk site.

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

Posted by Brian Hutchings on 01/01/2017 10:51:56:It may be possible to line the existing bearings back to a reasonable fit.

yes, that looks like a possibility. From a quick test there is definately play in the chuck, but ive not even dismantled it yet, as i presumed that the bearing would be the ball bearing type, have no adjustment, and have to be sourced and ordered…….ill inspect it a bit closer and see if theres any adjustment in the screws.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Looks like a useful machine. The tapered bearings in your pic would be bronze. They are similar to the ones in my M type. It looks as though on your model you pull the tapered bearing into its tapered hole by tightening the two screws on the end plate . The trick is, to slacken off those two screws on the top of the headstock casting first. You then tighten the the bearings up until some drag is felt. Then when you retighten those two screws on the top, they expand the outside of the tapered bearing outwards into firm contact with the tapered hole in the headstock casting. This creates a bit of extra clearance on the shaft so it can take several tries to get the clearance just right, ie no drag, no shake (ideally!). Not sure with this model, but you may have to slacken the screws on the round retaining plate on the other end of teh bearing to allow it to move longitudinally in that direction as it is tightened up.

There is an info sheet on adjusting M type bearings in the Yahoo Drummondlathe group File section. Not sure if there is one specific to the B flatbed like yours but the principal is the same.

I can't see in the pics but I think those two screws sticking up on the top of teh headstock casting, one at each bearing, should have a small hole drilled down the middle of it to allow you to oil the bearings with an oil can as you work. Many owners solder on fittings to each screw to allow a drip feed sight oiler to be fitted, a la later Myfrods.

You could replace that dangerous looking V belt (which has probably run for decades without blinding anyone but who wants to be the first?) with a link V belt from the usual Myford suppliers. It can be fitted and joined up without having to remove the headstock spindle.

Your missing change gears, which would be the same as the more common Drummond M-Type's, would only be needed for screwcutting threads. Ordinary turning feed is normally effected by hand cranking the handle on the right-hand end of the leadscrew,

Edited By Hopper on 01/01/2017 12:20:51

Edited By Hopper on 01/01/2017 12:25:09

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

What you have is a 'pre-B' which of course never needed a designation before they came out with a new design but for some unknown reason nobody ever calls them "A". There are lots of spare changewheels on ebay though sometimes at rip off prices and you will soon recognise the characteristic drive holes in them for the pins. (Note the pins are tapered so don't try to drive one out the wrong way) There were a couple of other lathes that used drive pins but were rare enough for 99% of the gears to be be genuine Drummond. 14DP.

It is great that it has survived 100 years without anyone breaking a back gear tooth.

You need to read every single post on the Drummond yahoo group and check all the files on it too to find all the snippets of data that are relevant. Yahoo is a pain in every way and doesn't work well with internet explorer so get Chrome.
You will find screwcutting charts in the files section which will tell you which gears you need in the longer term.
You will also find some details about bearings which are tricky but note there were several design changes in the model B and I'm not sure what the pre-B arrangement is.

If you are getting a link belt try to find a proper quality one not the cheap plastic ones that most places are selling now as they don't grip well without excessive tension. Some slip is desirable though as it acts as an emergency clutch.

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Posted by Hopper on 01/01/2017 12:17:02:

I can't see in the pics but I think those two screws sticking up on the top of teh headstock casting, one at each bearing, should have a small hole drilled down the middle of it to allow you to oil the bearings with an oil can as you work. Many owners solder on fittings to each screw to allow a drip feed sight oiler to be fitted, a la later Myfrods.

They are the original push point type oilers

There was some post on here last year on similar lathe might be worth a look in the archive……..b

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Phil, I definitely think it is the same as the one in the youtube vid' and the one on the lathes site **LINK**

I agree that you should change the belt before you attempt to use it, as it's not a good idea having the end of a belt flying into your face, especially if it's the end that still has that awful staple in it.

Regards Nick.

[Ian RobertsParticipant @ianroberts40159]

Posted by Bazyle on 01/01/2017 12:57:51:

What you have is a 'pre-B' which of course never needed a designation before they came out with a new design but for some unknown reason nobody ever calls them "A".

That's because a model A is something else entirely, it's the early type roundbed, which usually gets called a roundbed rather than an A.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just in case it isn't obvious, never run it without oiling the bearings first. Fitting a pair of oilers instead of the nipples would be a good upgrade.

Neil

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/01/2017 14:28:34:

Just in case it isn't obvious, never run it without oiling the bearings first. Fitting a pair of oilers instead of the nipples would be a good upgrade.

Neil

There are reservoirs formed in the head stock casting , might not be such a good idea unless one likes mopping up excess oil , more than any thing it needs a counter shaft …………..b

It probably a bit late , i get the idea by the pics of the bearings it might be in need of new ones 

Needs counter shaft and size smaller chuck ……….b

Edited By bodge on 01/01/2017 14:50:06

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

Yes its a nice machine

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

ok, ill have a go at tightening the bearings, otherwise ill try having new sleeves made/truing the spindle.

in reference to the oil, I've seen several oil holders that supply a drip to the bearings, available on eBay, but what designation of oil would you use? presumably something not to thin, to prevent it running straight through…..the brass nipples it has at the moment seem to be almost flush with the surface of the casting, theres no way to get my grease gun onto them, and no obvious way to get them out without drilling/ rettapping. i may end up doing that anyway, as it unlikely the new oilers will be a similar thread.

in ref the belt, I'm going to re mount the motor, as it looks a bit rough at the moment, and I'm considering mounting it below the tray, as it has cut outs where the original treadle belt would have been.

ill have a good read of the screw cutting charts but i think its gonna be a while before i get to attempt it.

thanks for the suggestions and help chaps.

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

Posted by bodge on 01/01/2017 14:37:21:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/01/2017 14:28:34:

Needs counter shaft and size smaller chuck ……….b

Edited By bodge on 01/01/2017 14:50:06

what is a counter shaft? sorrie…new to all this……..

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Phil – the following link might help (http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page3.html) also worth looking on the same website for details of the Drummond lathes as well as the other pages that explain all the various bits of a lathe.

Keith

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

Phil

The oil buttons are not for use with a grease gun , just a standard oil can is fine, depress the ball with the spout of the oil can then squirt

When the bearing are removed from the head stock you will see the head stock bearing holders are hollowed out forming an oil reservoir , if you take a look at pics of the bearings you posted on the right hand in pic you will see it has small hole drilled in the lower part of the bearing opposite to the hole in the top of bearing you can also see a shallow trough on the inside of the bearing that dos not quite extend to outer edges of the bearing,

I have one of these lathes & the oilers work just fine !

As for correct oil something like 30 w will be ok or the same oil you use in your car ,that is all i am using semi synthetic about 10 – 30 w seems to cling to the bearing & spindle nicely, i use the same oil other machine too,no problems,

As for counter shaft follow Keith"s link, the correct size of chuck for this lathe would be 3 inch for the 3 jaw & 4 inch for a 4 jaw independent…………b

Over size chuck is one of the quickest ways to kill the bearings.

edit for typo…………….b

Edited By bodge on 06/01/2017 20:40:40

[phil lindsayParticipant @phillindsay79385]

Hello chaps, ive done quite a bit to the lathe since the last post, got some changewheels, about six in all, ill be starting a post about those soon! for now thought, ive got a question about thread sizes, ive got 3 machine screw which take the slack out of the toolpost, one is missing and one is bent. if they were metric, id guessd m3, but im suspecting its not metric, anyone know what thread types were used on these lathes? my next guess it to buy a whitworth thread guage, but it may be somthing more exotic……UNF? Imperial?

Edited By phil lindsay on 02/05/2017 17:01:30

[Author]

Posts