Milling Machines

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Congratulations Alan. Hope you enjoy your purchase.

Ketan at ARC.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 20/01/2013 11:55:04:

So what`s good about this you ask! well it was built in the UK around 1969 by pipe smoking craftsmen that went down to the pub, not semi or quarter skilled labour that do tai chi three times a day, eat a lot of rice and still get it wrong.

Alan

.

Sorry mate It was probably built by me.

I worked at Raglans during that period and seriously it was not the best point in that firms history.

They were under threat of closure by the new owners, Myford, who as history has proved just wanted to remove the competition of the 5" Raglan.

The work force, knowing closure was imminent I must admit didn't put a full 100% into it.

So removing the rosy tinted glasses even at that time all was not right with the world.

They were built on clapped out WWII equipment but I do agree by craftsmen but still on piece work so it wasn't in their best interests to spend time.

The lathes were checked for alignment and bed flatness when being built but the millers and the Loughborough training lathes were just assembled, no checks for alignment are accuracy were ever made.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

I am grateful to everyone on here who have taken the time to present their views, which have mostly been positive, with reference to ARC, as well as other importers. The support is very much appreciated by us as well as all the importers, I am sure.

The fact that the other importers do not comments on here does not mean that they are any better or any worse than us. It is their choice.

Thank you. Ketan at ARC.

[Francis SykesParticipant @francissykes95134]

Congratulations Gary! I welded up a bench for mine, taking too many months to finish it! Anyway finally getting bored of using the machine on the now sagging pallet it was on, I borrowed a Clarke engine crane and suitable lifting strop to get it in position.

It made the job easy, a one person job as well as above all, safe for me and the precious mill!

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Thank you John, you must be as old as me! Well what do they say " when the going get`s tough the tough get`s going". I`m mentally rolling up my sleeves scraper at the ready.

I don`t think that a skilled craftsman would deliberately turn out bad work, the two just don`t go together.

The fact that the machine was assembled and passed off for sale is a positive thing and it`s subsequent use in a workshop can only mean that it was good enough to do the work required of it, Or should I say "fit for purpose".

One thing does worry me though, I hope that you`ve been able to shake off that less than 100% attitude that you had then.

Alan

ps. The way to stop machinery expanding and contracting and creating condensate is to keep the workshop at a constant temperature 24/7. Surprised you didn`t know that!

Edited By alan smith 6 on 20/01/2013 12:52:39

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you hang around the site a while Alan, you will see that john can show most of us a thing or two about engineering, being at the other end of the world I'v only seen whats on the net, andthe items in a certain machine tool co., catalogue, quite impressed. Ian S C

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Ian,

I`m sure that John has his good points and some of his posts are quite interesting but I haven`t forgiven him for deliberately causing the "chinese lathe accessories" thread to descend into anarchy and subsequently have the plug pulled on it by Dave.

Alan

Edited By alan smith 6 on 20/01/2013 13:45:57

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 20/01/2013 12:44:51:

Thank you John, …………………..

I don`t think that a skilled craftsman would deliberately turn out bad work, the two just don`t go together.

.

Alan

Edited By alan smith 6 on 20/01/2013 12:52:39

Hi Alan, maybe not, but I've been told by my boss not to spend too much time or get too fussy with jobs as the customers do not what to pay much, they just want it to work.

Regards Nick.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

This is just a general post, not a reply to anyone or directed at anyone.

I'm curious as to the checking of the current machines, which are all usually Chinese, for what is commonly referred to as "Fit for Purpose " [ F f P ]

My curiosity causes me to question if this has gone on from say WWII which will encompass most present users.

The reason being that in this time there have been good and bad made. The 'bad' being the made to a price machines that are in direct comparison to todays Chinese Machines. I think we can include machines such as the Winfield, Pooles, Gamages and the like, not totally rubbish but certainly cut corners so the firm could continue to exist.

In the good section we can include the likes of Myford, Raglan, Tom Senior and a few more.

I don't think anyone will take exception to this loose bundle of machines.

Now I can't recall any posts in ME where the owner used to term F f P or even did a series of test on one. Todays buyers will go out and buy a Tom Senior, post how good it is and everyone should buy one [ Not going to happen, not enough left ] but never tram the column and report on it.

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

Hi Steve

Sorry you've not hit it off with Ketan. I bought my X3 and my KX3 from him with no regrets. On my last visit he didn't want to sell me an ER11 collet chuck because he did't think it would be fit for the purpose I was going to use it (he hasn't seen my work) but it did the job I wanted. When I am looking to buy something I look on his website first.

This is just to give you some balance from an ARC customer.

Cheers Michael

[Donald WittmannParticipant @donaldwittmann92536]

Just curious here, but I have just been looking through the ISO Standards for milling machines {ISO 1984-2:2001} manually controlled, table of fixed height, vertical spindle. And am curious as to whether the Chinese hobby machines have to adhere to these standards, or because they are for hobby use if the standards do not apply. I am sure that there is somebody on this forum who would be able to answer this.

Regards,

Donald.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

A propos John's comments: I think your generalisations are correct. What intrigues me is that when I was looking for a first lathe in 1980ish there were none of the British entry level lathes available from new and yet the far east hadn't really penetrated the market. It would seem that during the 70s the model engineer made do with second hand or bought a Myford (or possibly a Boxford). It would be interesting, if I had the data, to compare the costs relative to the average wage of lathes in each of the decades since the war to the present. I'm sure we would find that today's model engineer is very spoiled compared with his (or hers, Jo) forbears.

I seem to remember Tubal Cain reviewing a Senior E mill in ME when he bought one. I can't remember if the column was out of true though.

Cheers, Rod

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Donald,

Few standards (for anything) are compulsory in any legal sense – though of course if the manufacturer claims the product complies with a particular standard then it should do so. Being for hobby use doesn't make any difference.

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Michael,

Ketan by his own admission is not an engineer but a businessman, you probably know more about engineering than he does!

Alan

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Roderick,

The price of smaller second hand machines is really low relative to income, this is thanks to the foreign imports but good for us British machine buyers. The larger industrial machines still command a high price as there are fewer equivalent foreign machines being imported.

Alan

[Donald WittmannParticipant @donaldwittmann92536]

David, Thanks for clearing that up. I think that 1 that would have to be adhered to [in Europe] would be the CE standard. I would think they would all meet that, It's just that I was curious about the mechanical standards.

Regards,

Donald.

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Ketan Swali is gettin here so much undeserved flak that I'll prefer to order some next tools from him. I just have to salute that level of comitment and integrity he is showing.

Have to get some stuf together at the work, that I will be blamed anyways no matter what, but someone has to do the work, othervice the rest would have nothing to complain about.

Pekka

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Donald Wittmann on 20/01/2013 18:41:48:

David, Thanks for clearing that up. I think that 1 that would have to be adhered to [in Europe] would be the CE standard. I would think they would all meet that, It's just that I was curious about the mechanical standards.

Regards,

Donald.

CE is not a standard – the CE mark is supposed to indicate that the equipment complies with all relevant EU Directives (low volatage, machinery, EMC,…). These typically relate to basic EU wide 'safety' requirements and are rarely anything to do with performance or capability of the equipment.

Edited By David Jupp on 20/01/2013 19:26:04

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

There is a useful summary of "CE marking" on the hse website.

The final bullet point might be worth further investigation !

[quote] and the preparation and provision of comprehensive product User Instructions, in the language of the end user.

MichaelG.

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

I may have missed it in the fire fight, but what the hell machine did the guy who started the war actually buy in the end?

[Francis SykesParticipant @francissykes95134]

I think he got fed up with the whole thing and took up cross stitch.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Francis Sykes on 20/01/2013 22:17:28:

I think he got fed up with the whole thing and took up cross stitch.

.

Yabut how do you get two loose needles to be in tolerance ?

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

Francis, John I think you have first to define cross stitch, then decide the tolerance and fit of the cross and the stitch, and that is before we get to decide whether the cross and/or the stitch individually and/or combined are fit for purpose. Will the cross and the stitch even fit if they are both from China and what will happen if they are of mixed race?

Am I being silly now? Probably, now where is that corkscrew?

[JonParticipant @jon]

Donald its only relevant to the better companies who will want to flaunt it. If a company doesnt state ISO 1984-2:2001 it stands a very good chance it hasnt been tested and therefore pot luck what you end up wth.

Quite right as well David J i have a certain 3ph inverter that hasnt a CE mark or British Standard on it, neither had the two previous.

Roderik a 92 Harrison VS330 was $20500 plus extras a lot dearer than an equivalent Colchester.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

A 1992 TOS 380 was £5400 fully loaded and delivered.

By fully loaded I mean 6" 3 jaw, 8" 3 jaw, 8" 4 jaw, faceplate, catchplate, 5C chuck, all change wheels for special threads, 3 tailstock chucks, fixed and revolving centres. Two speed motor, fixed and travelling staedies.

Spare clutch plates, spare cross slide nut, spare clutch selector, spare drive belts, spare brake pad.

Funnly enough the EXACT same price as a Myford 254 with no chucks, accesories or delivery.

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