Magnetic base LED machine light – WARNING MAY BE UNSAFE

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

For the curious this appears to be identical to the circuit board inside a Jansjo:

Ebay: **LINK**

Jansjo: **LINK**

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 11/04/2016 20:55:39

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I ordered 3 from the seller cskwin2015

paid and today got this message :-

Sorry to trouble you.

We are so sorry to tell you that the item has been sent back to the suppliers to test again,we are not sure when they can finish the test,so we can't send it to you at present.In order to protect your profits and save the time,how about we refund to you first?And if you still want it,you can buy later.We are so sorry about this problem and we promise that we will improve in the future.

If we do not get your reply in 48 hours, if we have solved this problem, we will send the item to you, if we do not deal with issue at that time(the period we suggest you to wait) , we will cancel the order and refund to you.

We apologize for you again and hope can hear from you soon.

Regards

Has anyone else ordered and got their item?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I got a message at 11:00 from ciskwin today saying mine had been dispatched

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I got the dispatched message at 10.26 am today.

I wonder if the other 271 buyers did as well ?

Phil

[Malcolm Parker-LisbergParticipant @malcolmparker-lisberg38138]

Muzzer

If you are claiming bragging rights, I've got 15 years on you in electronic design.

As a converter, by definition, applies to a SMPS as it converts AC to DC. An inverter takes a DC supply and converts it to AC. You may be too young to remember rotary converters/inverters used during WW2, or even the vibrator.

You demonstrate you lack of ability to read by suggesting that I indicated that the LED was anything other than a DC component. Did you miss the anti-parallel diode, it means a diode, in parallel with the LED connected the other way round, ie. with cathode to LED anode and anode to LED cathode. It protects the LED from reverse polarity. The energy lost due to its presence is small if, by design, the AC supply to the LED is asymmetric.

 

The Zafira is an example of a lethal motor vehicle that complied to all international standards, but still burst into flame giving people 10 seconds to exit.

 

 

Ian

Perhaps they have run out of stock due to our activity, but don't want to admit it.

Edited By Malcolm Parker-Lisberg on 12/04/2016 00:15:56

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Come on guys – it's a light innit – not as complicated as a hypervapotron.

Plug it in, if it works it lights up. If it don't – throw it away.

Is there anything more to be said?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive India on 12/04/2016 10:33:03:

Plug it in, if it works it lights up. If it don't – throw it away.

Is there anything more to be said?

.

Yes … I'm afraid so …

What if it lights up, AND is electrically unsafe

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … Hopefully, someone with the appropriate knowledge might see fit to dismantle the 'base' and give an opinion. [with the proper caveat of "no liability expressed or implied"].

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 12/04/2016 10:41:11:

Posted by Clive India on 12/04/2016 10:33:03:

Plug it in, if it works it lights up. If it don't – throw it away.

Is there anything more to be said?

.Yes … I'm afraid so …What if it lights up, AND is electrically unsafe

MichaelG.

P.S. … Hopefully, someone with the appropriate knowledge might see fit to dismantle the 'base' and give an opinion. [with the proper caveat of "no liability expressed or implied"].

Michael – like you do with other things you buy – TV, radio, dishwasher, car? You pull it apart and ask everyone if it is safe?
This is just a light. Take it out of the box. Use and enjoy.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive India on 12/04/2016 10:58:02:

Michael – like you do with other things you buy – TV, radio, dishwasher, car? You pull it apart and ask everyone if it is safe?
This is just a light. Take it out of the box. Use and enjoy.

.

Clive,

I have no 'axe to grind' on this one … I don't need a light like this, and won't be buying one.

I simply answered your direct question; and my response was informed by the rather heated discussion that had already taken place. …

MichaeG.

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Posted by Clive India on 12/04/2016 10:58:02:

This is just a light. Take it out of the box. Use and enjoy.

If only that were wholly true. Patently unsafe electrical devices continue to flow out of sweatshops in the far east. Spending five quid on a mains powered lamp or a USB power supply to charge your phone could prove to be the very worst decision you ever made, so bad that you may not be around to make another bad decision.

Like the marks of formal approvals bodies or other forms of self certification a CE mark often means nothing, you can easily buy the stickers online in rolls of thousands for a dollar or two delivered. In many cases the CE mark doesn't even conform to the strict form and dimensions specified for its use. From a reputable supplier / importer who actually has the processes in place to perform the necessary checking and has the ability and skill to examine internal construction standards then it certainly carries some weight, from a supplier on ebay or aliexpress or whoever it often means nothing other than a fraction of a cent for the case marking.

The design may be inherently unsafe from the first moment the designer sits down at a keyboard, often it appears the designer takes a datasheet from a manufacturer, they know the envelope the design has to be fitted into, and they will, for unknown reasons, totally ignore really basic design rules. The design then gets farmed out for manufacture to the lowest cost supplier maybe with component substitution or omission.

The result could be internal components may not be rated for use at mains voltages, or adequately protected by fusible elements, mains pins might not be adequately restrained within the plug. Crack the lid open and you might find internal clearances between the mains and low voltage side of the equipment could be sub 1mm, covered in stray microblobs of solder stuck to uncleaned flux residues. The LV side having exposed metal such as a plug or other structure (like the gooseneck on the lamp in the first posting) that may become live at mains potential at any moment. Add coolant, stray bits of swarf etc and it only gets worse.

Maybe you'll get away with it if you have an RCD but in recent days elsewhere on this forum there has been mention of removing earths to avoid nuisance tripping of RCD's For the vast majority of equipment and applications the earth conductor and connections are there for very sound reasons. Removal to prevent nuisance tripping of an RCD falls into the category of insanely stupid.

Large corporations like Apple etc have had issues in the past with electrical safety on many items of kit. one thing for sure is they are certainly more wary now than previously. But it's a fact that large swathes of what should be extremely low risk equipment are potential death traps. There are very few suppliers of USB power supplies that I would ever consider. Those from elsewhere that somehow fall into my possession are sometimes dissected but mainly just destroyed and binned to prevent their use. After a while you get a feeling for knowing what crap lurks inside.

Would I consider using a mains powered lamp, of unknown construction standards with a high possibility of poor isolation between the mains and low voltage sides, with no IP rating, without proper certification, with unearthed exposed metalwork that may rise to mains potential, in an environment with moisture and swarf?

The answer is no.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

That seems like a reasonable summary of my position, too. I just wasn't expecting such a vicious trolling for saying it!

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

We have dozens of wall warts and similar devices for charging and running electrical stuff. Some comply with the regs. and some probably do not. Nothing in house or workshop is left on overnight or unattended. This includes washing machines, dryers tvs etc. Common sense.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Gordon W on 12/04/2016 14:54:27:

Nothing in house or workshop is left on overnight or unattended. This includes washing machines, dryers tvs etc.

No fridge or freezer?

Andrew

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Ah, yes, glad you spotted that. Both, with one or two other things, on own ring with low amp breaker.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

2013-14 statistics:

Accidental dwelling fires
Accidental dwelling fires were 4% and 28% lower in Great Britain in 2013-14 compared to the previous year and ten years before respectively. The main cause of accidental dwelling fires remained the misuse of equipment/appliances (13,300 fires), while the main source of ignition was cooking appliances (mainly cooker including oven) which accounted for more than half of all accidental dwelling fires

Faulty appliances and leads. These have fallen by 23% compared to the figure in 2003-04;

The figure was 7,200 caused by faulty appliances or leads.

http://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-statistics-great-britain-2013-to-2014

 

 

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 12/04/2016 20:05:52

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

I've just bought one of those tiny magnetic DTI stands from Ebay. It arrived with a broken switch, so I fire off a message to the seller and they offer 50% refund. Looking closer at the item it really is poorly made. For the moment I've super-glued the switch back on and squared up the base and sides that were previously machined flatish with a linisher

Another project on the todo list is to repair a light I used to use on a painting easel, which could become my lathe light. As Jeff says you can never have enough light!

Ed.

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

The two lamps I ordered have arrived and a sticker has been placed on the outer package stating :-

'Goods not fulfilling the conditions laid down in Articles 28 and 29 of the Treaty on the functioning of the European Union' What is this all about?

All I know is that they work and seem to be just right for machine lighting. I will change the 2 pin plug for a fused 13 amp one.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I think it means that you are liable to pay Customs Duty on the goods. As duty is usually collected on delivery you're probably in the clear. Fingers crossed!

[Malcolm Parker-LisbergParticipant @malcolmparker-lisberg38138]

It means the EU wants to grab the money from Customs Duty for an import from outside the EU. But UK customs allows £25 worth of goods without having to pay any duty, as it costs more to collect than is due. So how decide which way to vote on June 23rd as the EU would like to collect the money, no matter what it costs.

Malcolm

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg on 26/05/2016 16:09:09:

It means the EU wants to grab the money from Customs Duty for an import from outside the EU. But UK customs allows £25 worth of goods without having to pay any duty, as it costs more to collect than is due. So how decide which way to vote on June 23rd as the EU would like to collect the money, no matter what it costs.

Malcolm

Don't forget that this cuts both ways. British manufacturers are disadvantaged whenever Europeans fail to pay duty on imports from outside the union.

Note also that British manufacturing will not be protected by the Union if we leave it. Instead European industry will be competing head-on with ours.

The risk is that British industry unfettered by European rules will get duffed up by German, French and Italian industry as soon as they also are unfettered by European rules.

I expect Neil will ban us now!

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

I'd better get in before he does!

The value was only aroud £11 so that must be why the postie just gave me the package.

Text deleted so as to not cause trouble.

Edited By modeng2000 on 26/05/2016 17:11:50

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS
Article 28
(ex Article 23 TEC)
1. The Union shall comprise a customs union which shall cover all trade in goods and which shall
involve the prohibition between Member States of customs duties on imports and exports and of all
charges having equivalent effect, and the adoption of a common customs tariff in their relations with third countries.
2. The provisions of Article 30 and of Chapter 3 of this Title shall apply to products originating
in Member States and to products coming from third countries which are in free circulation in
Member States.

Article 29
Products coming from a third country shall be considered to be in free circulation in a Member State
if the import formalities have been complied with and any customs duties or charges having
equivalent effect which are payable have been levied in that Member State, and if they have not
benefited from a total or partial drawback of such duties or charges.

 

Basically the EU prohibits member states imposing charges when importing and exporting goods between them.

The sticker means the goods are from outside the EU so if the HMRC want to tax them, they are free to do so.

 

Article 30 means that once you have paid those import taxes, then no further taxes can be imposed as a result of exporting them to another EU country.

 

It is not about the EU collecting taxes, it is about preventing taxes on goods moving between EU countries… this can be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective (e.g. whether you're buying or selling!)

Now please don't drift into pro or anti EU.

Neil

 

 

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2016 17:20:37

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hi nodeng2000

I read the text just before you deleted it. And I had just the perfect riposte too! You're quite right though : this isn't the place to cause trouble. In a way it's a shame – what other people think is important and interesting to me, and I sometimes change my mind.

Cheers,

Dave

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Going back to the lamp that was in the original post, mine showed up a few days ago, in Canada, with what appeared to be a standard 2-pin North American flat-blade plug. However, when plugged into an outlet, it promptly fell right back out.

Measurements showed that the blades are significantly thinner and narrower than typical local plugs. Since it's hard to believe that the Chinese manufacturers don't have access to proper plugs I wondered whether the plug used is part of an adapter series wherein the appropriate region's plug is attached to this 2-pin, depending on the location of the buyer – and the basic 2-pin adapter being considered "close enough" for North American use (it isn't).

So how are these lamps delivered in the UK? Do they come with a UK-type plug that attaches to the adapter; or a hard-wired UK plug; or simply bare leads for a wire-yourself plug (do you guys still do that?).

[modeng2000Participant @modeng2000]

The lamp came with an adapter that accepted the 2 pin plug and converted to a standard UK 13 amp plug.

Sorry I beat you to it Dave!

John

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