M Type Apron Direction

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

Dear All,

I seem to recollect a comment about a modification so that the hand wheel on my M Type moves the table in the same direction as the wheel ? Am I imagining it or is there such a thing ? Is it a difficult modification ?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

MEW ran an article by Geoff Walker in the past year or two on this mod. Simple enough, it consists of a bracket and cover that screws on to the apron to hold an extra gear so the direction of the handwheel rotation is both reversed and the ratio lowered, so it's more like other lathes. You should be able to find it one of the online indexes for MEW and buy a back issue.

[Ian UsmarParticipant @ianusmar79339]

So anyone know what the issue number etc. is.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ian Usmar on 04/02/2019 08:03:23:

So anyone know what the issue number etc. is.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The Myford ML2 and ML4 have the same configuration, where turning the handle clockwise moves the saddle towards the Chuck. Confuses mere mortals like me!

No doubt they would benefit from the same sort of modification.

Howard

[Robin KingParticipant @robinking15611]

The late Martin Cleeve described the construction of a replacement apron designed to deal with that problem – from memory in ME late 1950's/early 60's. I built one for my old ML1 – worked a treat.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It's easily enough done. You need two gears, a large one and a small one. The large one is substituted for the original handwheel. The small gear is mounted on a spindle to mesh with the large gear and the handwheel is mounted on the outboard end of that spindle. So turning the handwheel turns the small gear, which drives the large gear, which turns the original shaft with the original gear engaging with the rack on it.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Issue 234

https://www.magzter.com/GB/MyTime_Media_Ltd./Model_Engineers%27_Workshop/Home/127588

 

Edited By Hopper on 04/02/2019 10:09:14

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Hi Ian,

Picture below of the mew issue 234 conversion.

If you have a go, don't buy the gears from Muffets like I did, very expensive. Use either Boxford or Myford change wheels and modify them, i.e. change the hole size by bushing the existing hole. Lot cheaper way.

I also made a pattern and had a complete new apron cast for the myford, lot of work but neat with the gears enclosed inside.

Geoff

[Philip RoweParticipant @philiprowe13116]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 04/02/2019 08:16:07:

The Myford ML2 and ML4 have the same configuration, where turning the handle clockwise moves the saddle towards the Chuck. Confuses mere mortals like me!

You are not kidding, when I started model engineering as a teenager using my father's ML2 I got used to the weird saddle wheel operation but then I didn't know any different. Later on when I started my apprenticeship I discovered lathes with saddle wheels that worked the other way in my view more natural. Confusing I don't think really describes it, I lost count how many times I would ruin a piece because I ran the tool bit into the work instead of away. Usually I would get the hang of it by the end of the day, go home and do something on Dad's lathe and the process would start all over again.

It's many years since the ML2 was replaced so fortunately I don't have that problem any more.

Phil

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Phil

I would agree that switching between lathes with a different handwheel feed rotation is certainly NOT recommended.

A friend of mine had his drummond M type for 40 years using the factory hand wheel feed set up.

He got a casting of me and did the conversion you see in the earlier post. He said after 1/2 hour using the apron he didn't even have to think about which way to turn the hand wheel even after 40 years of turning it the other way

Geoff

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Being a regular user of left and right foot gearchange motorcycles I stopped having to think about which foot. A mate wanted to borrow my bike and loaned me his Ducati Desmo 250, this had a reverse pattern change and it floored me completely, I near enough came to a halt thinking about what to do.

Mike

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Not just motorcycle manufacturers who caused confusion.

The Bradford van had a mirror image gear change pattern, as did the Guy GS bus for Green Line.

Southdown Motor service had Guy Arabs with Gardner 5LW engines and a mirror image change pattern The following year the later model, with Gardner 6LW had a conventional change pattern.

In those days gearboxes were unsynchronised. Until the drivers spotted which type they had, there were some very unprofessional noises!

Fords changed the arrangement of the steering column controls (indicators & wipers) between Escort and Cortina.

When i drove my pal's car, for a while, I cleaned the screen before turning. Could dodgy on a right hand turn!.

Howard

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Try MEW 234, Drummond Rack Feed by Geoff Walker.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mike Poole on 04/02/2019 12:12:38:

Being a regular user of left and right foot gearchange motorcycles I stopped having to think about which foot. A mate wanted to borrow my bike and loaned me his Ducati Desmo 250, this had a reverse pattern change and it floored me completely, I near enough came to a halt thinking about what to do.

Mike

I tried my brother's Honda CM125 and drove round the block without getting out of first gear – aside from starting in second…

Neil

[Dave Bullock MBEParticipant @davebullockmbe21149]

Hi

This modification is exactly what I need to do for my son who has just bought a lovely example M type.
We are both used to me Myforl ML7.
However how do I disassemble the main handwheel/rack pinion assembly?
There is the faintest mark that shows it may be 'pinned' to the shaft but I can't see the pin both sides of the hand wheel's boss. Do I have to drill this out?

Help please….thanks Dave

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 05/02/2019 11:56:55:

Fords changed the arrangement of the steering column controls (indicators & wipers) between Escort and Cortina.

When i drove my pal's car, for a while, I cleaned the screen before turning. Could dodgy on a right hand turn!.

Howard

Not just Fords. To get to my parents house you turned right off the main road up a very steep access drive with a 90 degree bend half way up.

Father changed from a dark green Volvo estate to a nearly identical one where the auto transmission lever moved from the left of the steering column to the centre console and the indicators took its place.

A couple of days after the change I was in the front passenger seat when he indicated left instead of locking down the transmission but turned right and as he booted it up the steep drive it kicked down accelerating towards the 90 degree corner ………. !

He never did it again as I suspect once was enough!

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Question: As Drummond and Myford lathes and many other light lathes from the first half of the last century had this 'cack handed' arrangement couldn't you argue that Myford's were the odd ones out when they put the more logical one on the ML7?

Discuss, Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 21/06/2020 11:19:26

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Dave have sent you a message. At top of page when logged in personal message.

David

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Dave – assuming that your M type is the same as mine then the hand wheel is secured by a through taper pin. Some careful cleaning and light filing might expose the end of the pin opposite the bit that you've found. From memory it's quite a small diameter pin 3/32in. or thereabouts comes to mind. It should just "tap" out but could be tight if it hasn't been moved since the lathe was built.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Dave the handwheel is held on by a tapered pin. You may have to drill it out. I found my handwheel pin just wouldn't come out and after drilling a small hole in both ends I pushed the shaft out and then removed the taper pin bits. If you file and polish the ends of the pin before drilling you can just make out the circle of the ends before drilling.

David

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Could never understand why some lathes were made like that ,arse about face.

One would think that common sense would dictate that to move right, one should turn right !

The ways of the Lord are strange, those of the makers, even more so.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The extra gear, its shaft and enclosure add cost to the machine, so for a low cost machine the retail price could be minimised, by using as few parts as possible..

Could even be an optional upgrade, to bring extra revenue.

And then we can side track the thread with a debate as to whether the Handwheel should be located on the right or the left of the Apron!

Howard

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