lifting, levelling and wheeling around a lathe

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

I’ve just bought a Maxmat V10P and it came on this homemade stand.  The previous owner, who was a bit shorter than me had it lifted up by about 10cm. I want to be able to move it around from time to time – I intend to buy a mill for it and I also have a big taper attachment and they would use the same holes so if I want to swap between them I need to pull the thing away from the wall and do some serious surgery – whether I actually will or not is a different matter.

Anyway…I can get 10cm castors that will raise the height by 13.5cm no probs but then what? I need to level it and stop it wandering. If I use feet they’re going to be very long – will they be rigid enough? Maybe I still use feet but much shorter ones and then blocks of wood underneath?

Thoughts appreciated please.

[halfnutParticipant @halfnut]

Locking castors are readily available.

 

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

trying to level a lathe (and keep it that way) on rubber castor wheels that swivel I’m guessing isn’t the best method?

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

I’m.not clear on what you are intending to do with the stand? It sounds like you intend to use the one frame and swap machines onto it, is that right?

If so I’d just make another stand, much less trouble. If not why do you need to move the stand round, my major machines are all static.

Also leveling a lathe is a bit of a misnomer, lathes on ships and submarines could never be level in the sense of a spirit level.

But they are set up to turn parallel which is the most important thing for any lathe to achieve accurate results.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Are you wheeling it over a cobbled street or nice smooth tarmac as per picture? Castors are a pain as they shift the actual support point all over the place.
If you have a flat surface you only need to raise it half an inch. If the surface is not flat make it flat with a sheet of thick ply.
You mostly only need the wheels, non castoring, at the headstock end and can lift the tailstock to move. By only lifting a small amount it is practical to have a way of lowering the wheels when needed. Note I do not suggest lowering feet although that might be seen as easier because you end up with the lathe in working position on the end of possibly loose threaded rods.

For levelling you only need one adjustable foot, at the tailstock end.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

This type of thing maybe, there’s lots of sources for the same, or similar, items

Heavy Machine Levelling Foot Pad Wheels Castors 4PCs Set Flat

Bill

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

Either they set them up on a perfectly calm day or cut a lot of tests. Fortunately my garage doesn’t sway so I will go with level 🙂

[peak4]

On peak4 Said:

This type of thing maybe, there’s lots of sources for the same, or similar, items

Heavy Machine Levelling Foot Pad Wheels Castors 4PCs Set Flat

Bill

<p style=”text-align: center;”>That’s what I had in mind but they only have 10mm of travel and not as much overall luft to bring the lathe to wirking height. When the stand is in place after I finish painting it I will measure how much travel I need. I’m pretty sure it’s more then 10mm thiugh</p>

[Plasma]

On Plasma Said:

I’m.not clear on what you are intending to do with the stand? It sounds like you intend to use the one frame and swap machines onto it, is that right?

If so I’d just make another stand, much less trouble. If not why do you need to move the stand round, my major machines are all static.

Also leveling a lathe is a bit of a misnomer, lathes on ships and submarines could never be level in the sense of a spirit level.

But they are set up to turn parallel which is the most important thing for any lathe to achieve accurate results.

 

I just need to move it around sometimes to get to the back.

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

Are you wheeling it over a cobbled street or nice smooth tarmac as per picture? Castors are a pain as they shift the actual support point all over the place.
If you have a flat surface you only need to raise it half an inch. If the surface is not flat make it flat with a sheet of thick ply.
You mostly only need the wheels, non castoring, at the headstock end and can lift the tailstock to move. By only lifting a small amount it is practical to have a way of lowering the wheels when needed. Note I do not suggest lowering feet although that might be seen as easier because you end up with the lathe in working position on the end of possibly loose threaded rods.

For levelling you only need one adjustable foot, at the tailstock end.

It’s just around the garage mostly which is a bit rougher than the driveway but smooth enough. It’s too heavy to lift from one end and is sort of “built in” like a washing machine.

What you said about the thread is exactly my concern. Maybe 15cm of M12 threaded bar doesn’t feel like a stable solution.  Much shorter feet pushing onto wooden blocks though??? Maybe

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you don’t want long wobbly adjustable feet then weld on some brackets that sit say 25mm above the bottom of the caster wheel and then the adjuster can be short and less likely to wobble.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I think it got lost in the noise. but I second bazyle’s suggestion of “lowering” the casters when you want to move it and leave it sitting on short adjustable feet when not.
If the floor is smooth then the casters can be mounted on a high cross bar so they only touch when the (short) adjusters are fully up. Screw up the adjusters to move. You could mount them on a lever operated mechanisim but it seems a bit over the top.

Whatever you do the casters should not be taking weight when the lathe is in use.

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Having levelled a lathe, to take Twist out of the bed, and then moving it around does not sound like good practice to me.  It is unlikely to be twist free once moved.

Moving on castors yes, but with jacking feet once in place, ready to recheck / reset for twist.

The advice by Ian Bradley is to adjust the tailstock end to remove any twist.

Howard

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The stand whilst made of heavy material does not look very strong or stable, it’s bolted construction ? 100mm castors are available but I fear will only make things worse, even braked ones. As for setting the lathe to turn parallel, if it does it will be pure luck in this case !

I would start from scratch and build to the height you need. Bear in mind that the assembly will be VERY top heavy and moving it needs to be done with great care. Noel.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

If you don’t want long wobbly adjustable feet then weld on some brackets that sit say 25mm above the bottom of the caster wheel and then the adjuster can be short and less likely to wobble.

Sadly no welder or metal for that – I’ll have to go the wooden pad route to “raise the floor” in that one (four) spot.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

The stand whilst made of heavy material does not look very strong or stable, it’s bolted construction ? 100mm castors are available but I fear will only make things worse, even braked ones. As for setting the lathe to turn parallel, if it does it will be pure luck in this case !

I would start from scratch and build to the height you need. Bear in mind that the assembly will be VERY top heavy and moving it needs to be done with great care. Noel.

The thin cross brace at the bottom is bolted, the diagonals are welded including welds to the bottom braces.

The top piece is bolted with 4 bolts but I really was done up tight and the beams had bit into the tops of the base.

I have no intention of leaving the lathe sitting on castors when it’s in use.

I hear you re: top heavy – I will locate the castors right at the very corners of the base. Hopefully the U shaped beams aren’t exactly where I want to drill and tap holes for the castors.

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

I think it got lost in the noise. but I second bazyle’s suggestion of “lowering” the casters when you want to move it and leave it sitting on short adjustable feet when not.
If the floor is smooth then the casters can be mounted on a high cross bar so they only touch when the (short) adjusters are fully up. Screw up the adjusters to move. You could mount them on a lever operated mechanisim but it seems a bit over the top.

Whatever you do the casters should not be taking weight when the lathe is in use.

 

The whole lathe needs to come up so 13.5cm of castor is about right + maybe  1 or 2 for the feet. I’ve found some feet I had in stock that are on 10mm threaded rods – now I need to find some good wood to act as blocks under the feet.

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

Having levelled a lathe, to take Twist out of the bed, and then moving it around does not sound like good practice to me.  It is unlikely to be twist free once moved.

Moving on castors yes, but with jacking feet once in place, ready to recheck / reset for twist.

The advice by Ian Bradley is to adjust the tailstock end to remove any twist.

Howard

Yes, moving the lathe is a bad idea once level I know – but I will have to one day for sure, in fact quite soon – when I get the mill attachment.

I could in theory drag it – just about – but I’d never be able to push it back in place though

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I use the castors that Peak 4 suggests This on a Myford stand for an MML10 Works superbly well. I often need to move the lathe and winding up the red adjusters puts the thing back onto the castor wheels.

Levelling up the lathe is no problem. I use the adjustable feet if they are readily available otherwise just use the conventional method. It does not take long. People tend to think that levelling the lathe (removing bed twist) is a lengthy and complex task. Once you are familiar with the method it only takes me a few minutes I level it in the back to front direction and using an engineers level along the bed from headstock to tailstock any twist is easily seen and corrected.

I suspect their will be howls of protest at this method, but I always check that the lathe turns parallel . So far it always has!

Andrew.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

10mm threaded rod ‘feet’ = wibbly-wobbly. 3 solid blocks and one corner adjustment that only projects half an inch with locknuts.
Put two layers of 18m ply under the tin tray to reduce rattling and board over the back and sides to reduce high frequency vibration.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

https://www.warco.co.uk/machine-stands/84-machine-trolleys.html

I bought one of these some while back to enable a large etching press to be wheeled around a studio.  Might be useful?  Quite reasonable price from Warco.

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

10mm threaded rod ‘feet’ = wibbly-wobbly. 3 solid blocks and one corner adjustment that only projects half an inch with locknuts.
Put two layers of 18m ply under the tin tray to reduce rattling and board over the back and sides to reduce high frequency vibration.

I hear you – I maybe be able to use my trolley jack to get it up to put blocks under. I like the idea of less drilling into those thick base plates very much. So much so that I’m thinking about using castors with a single bolt going up inside. = 4 holes (that don’t have to be tapped) + 1 for a levelling foot vs 16 smaller tapped holes.

I don’t know if the tray rattles but its VERY tightly sandwiched between the lathe and big plates on the top of the base. Ply there is just going to compress and it will need tightening again and again. There was a lot of brass shimming between the tray and the bottom of the lathe too so again – something soft in the mix doesn’t feel like a good idea.

 

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

https://www.warco.co.uk/machine-stands/84-machine-trolleys.html

I bought one of these some while back to enable a large etching press to be wheeled around a studio.  Might be useful?  Quite reasonable price from Warco.

it wouldn’t be right here as I need to slide things under the lathe for storage. But, coincidentally one like that was for sale here locally for £15 on Facebook – I was thinking about getting it for “just in case” but by the time I decided yes it was gone.

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

…

Moving on castors yes, but with jacking feet once in place, ready to recheck / reset for twist.

…

The eternal question:  do it properly, or is a cheaper quicker bodge “good enough”.   Guaranteed results require best practice  be throughout, everything else is a gamble.   I’m not against gambling provided the risk is understood and the loss bearable.

I have a scaffolding tower that rests on either flat feet or lockable castors.  Obvious working on top that locked castors are very unstable compared with flat feet; castors move!  Not good – the more rigid a machine tool, the better.   And a castor supported lathe is unlikely to still be level after a move.  Not “best practice”, it’s a risk.

Wheel wobble is a common problem, and the answer is usually to move the item on wheels, and then to support it firmly by jacking down feet, ideally splayed on outriggers to reduce the centre of gravity (to reduce tipping and wobble).  Feet are also much less likely to sink into soft ground.   The picture is for a mobile crane, where very wide outriggers are needed, but it shows the principle.  The crane is operated with the wheels off the ground, and set up carefully – or should be.

Fixed feet with jacking wheels, or fixed wheels with jacking feet are both available.   Whichever suits best.

Levelling is an interesting subject.   Done for two different reasons:

• To ensure weight goes straight to ground without distorting a structure. Forces travel through parts strengthened by design to cope, not randomly.   Levelling a new installation puts a machine tool into the same condition it was set up in the factory, reducing the chance of installation errors creeping in.  The level need not be highly sensitive.
• To remove twist.  This is a fine adjustment requiring a sensitive engineers level, builders levels are hopeless.  Gap-bed lathes are much more likely to twist than solid beds of modern design.  Therefore, Myford owners are obliged to address   twist, whilst Mini-lathe owners don’t!  Twist can be argued both ways! Either bendy beds are good in that twist can be tuned out OR the design is bad because weakness makes adjustment necessary!   I suggest it’s having a gap that makes it necessary to adjust twist, not that bendy beds are clever.   Though gaps add versatility they allow twist, which has to be corrected; it’s a compromise!

I see the Maxmat V10P has a modern gap-less bed, so shouldn’t be fussy. As the risk and negative consequences are both low,  I’d attempt a simple bodge first.   Try it on castors, adding jack-down feet only if wobble proves to be a problem.   In the same way, check to see if moving or jacking down causes taper cuts due to bed twist. The VP10 having a girder bed makes it less likely to twist than a gap type so there’s a reasonable chance castors on a hard floor will be ‘good enough’ ,

Dave

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

 

Gap-bed lathes are much more likely to twist than solid beds of modern design.  Therefore, Myford owners are obliged to address   twist, whilst Mini-lathe owners don’t!  Twist can be argued both ways! Either bendy beds are good in that twist can be tuned out OR the design is bad because weakness makes adjustment necessary!   I suggest it’s having a gap that makes it necessary to adjust twist, not that bendy beds are clever.   Though gaps add versatility they allow twist, which has to be corrected; it’s a compromise!
<p style=”text-align: left;”></p>

 

What complete bunkum.

The gap section of a Myford bed is still stouter and more rigid than a mini lathe bed. The Myford casting is thicker and very cleverly shaped to ensure rigidity.

Levelling  (either with an actual level or by a turning test) is done when setting up large industrial lathes weighing 10 tons and more in order to ensure they turn true. Nothing inordinately “bendy” about them.

At the other end of the scale,  based on my personal experience, a mini lathe bed can very definitely be “twisted” by shimming under the mountings just the same as a Myford, Monarch 10EE, DSG , Hardinge, Le Blond or any other industrial lathe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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