Layout Blue

[Chris Taylor 3Participant @christaylor3]

Layout blue seems very expensive, in one instance £50 for a small tube, I know it goes a long way but it seems a bit excessive. Are there any alternative substances that can be used for marking out?

[Chris Taylor 3Participant @christaylor3]

Why so expensive and any alternatives?

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

I have used, for many years a felt tip pen, one with a big fat tip, usually blue but sometimes red or black, whichever comes to hand. Bought them from Staples years ago for next to nothing. One thing I have found, to work reliably they need to be stored upright tip down.

I assume you mean marking out blue rather than "micrometer blue" for checking fits etc.

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I found 8oz spray for £9.50 and 950ml of liquid for £16 online searching 'spray layour blue'.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Dykem layout blue is on sale for 16.99 for a 250ml bottle. The tubes on Amazon described as layout blue are not for marking out but for checking fits and scraping type work, as it is non drying using for marking out would be messy and non durable. The £50 price tag is ridiculous as RDG have it for about £12 but Stuart's micrometer is often found around the £5 mark. Be clear that the blue liquid and the blue paste have different uses. I find the Dykem blue liquid to be an excellent product, it takes a clean scribed line and is quite durable even coolant does not wash it off.

Mike

Permanent markers as others have said are very useful and can be obtained with very large tips, they are very convenient but I find they are not as durable as the layout blue. Very useful for a quick job that does not need to be handled too much. I would not be without both solutions.

Edited By Mike Poole on 09/12/2017 13:05:02

Edited By Mike Poole on 09/12/2017 13:09:53

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by John MC on 09/12/2017 12:55:27:

I have used, for many years a felt tip pen, one with a big fat tip, usually blue but sometimes red or black, whichever comes to hand. Bought them from Staples years ago for next to nothing. One thing I have found, to work reliably they need to be stored upright tip down.

I assume you mean marking out blue rather than "micrometer blue" for checking fits etc.

John

Yep, just scribble over the surface with a permanent Sharpie, then scribe as normal.

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

I recently bought an 8oz bottle of red marking fluid from RDG.

Works brilliantly and was around £16.

They also have a blue version.

[RobinParticipant @robin]

I thought layout fluid was French polish with a blue stain added. French polish is cheap as chips but where to get the stain?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Chris Taylor 3 on 09/12/2017 12:40:15:

Layout blue seems very expensive, in one instance £50 for a small tube,

If it was in a tube then it is not layout fluid but engineers blue. Try this for just over £10

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Sometimes the "Keyword search" facility works on this forum :- **LINK**

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

I have used black ink spirit markers for years, they show scribed lines very well and are cheap and cheerful into the bargain, handy pen shape and available everywhere.

Brian

Edit.  Sorry, I've said the same as John MacNamara. My experience matches his but I don't store them with any special care, they just get chucked in the drawer along with the bunch of pencils I keep to be sure I always have one somewhere.

Edited By Brian Wood on 09/12/2017 14:09:08

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

If you get the big felt tips from a tool store or builders merchant they last a lot longer than those from stationer's shops.

Or I last got layout blue (actually black) from JustTheTicket link **LINK** on page 3

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Don't do as I did!!!

After using layout blue, I used to clean the brush with methylated spirits and then pour the used meths back into the layout blue bottle. (Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time! ) It didn't become unusably thin, BUT …

Using layout blue from that bottle after a break of some years, I found to my horror that it only partially dried, leaving a nasty sticky surface.

Nowadays, I don't bother to clean the brush – the next use softens it up very quickly. (That particular brush is kept exclusively for use with layout blue. )

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 09/12/2017 14:26:07

[VicParticipant @vic]

I use these:

**LINK**

Just as good as layout fluid but more convenient to use. They are also refillable. I do have a bottle of layout fluid somewhere but I’ve never used it since buying the jumbo marker.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Wide felt tip pens, (permanent markers) make a good substitute.

Like Swarf Mostly, my brush dries out and hardens, but softens once dipped into the bottle again.

Howard

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

I find the best type of marker pens for this use (layout) are those sold to mark OHP transparencies. They are good strong colours, and you can get a range of six colours in a wallet. Useful for marking different stages, or re-thinks.

Also very useful for OHP transparencies, believe it or not …

Cheers, Tim

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

I have a can of spray on Rocol marking blue. Had it for years & it seems to keep the rust off metal sheet during the build process. Never had any luck with felt pens.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robin on 09/12/2017 13:19:22:

I thought layout fluid was French polish with a blue stain added. French polish is cheap as chips but where to get the stain?

French Polish might have too much shellac in it for direct use as a layout fluid but it could easily be diluted with meths. The dye is probably Methylene Blue (25g £7.50 on ebay).

You may have to experiment to get the mix right but I doubt it's critical. Be VERY careful not spill it – 25g is enough to Blue a tribe of Smurfs!

Dave

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Robin on 09/12/2017 13:19:22:

I thought layout fluid was French polish with a blue stain added. French polish is cheap as chips but where to get the stain?

It is obvious that you have not bought any shellac ( french polish) lately !!!!!

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 09/12/2017 22:37:08

It is obvious that you have not bought any shellac ( french polish) lately !!!!!

No I haven't, a bottle of Rustin's button polish lasts me a long time. However, eBay shellac, £32.99/kg with free shipping.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Sharpie Permanent Marker pens almost exclusively, black and blue being the best. Convenient, clean, quick and cheap.

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

I also use Sharpies/Texta/OHP pens exclusively but notice that the surface you use them on also needs to be clean. If you are in the habit of spraying your metal stocks with WD40 or other oily substances to minimise rust then be prepared to clean it off well before using marker pens, but then i guess that's the same with other layout fluid?

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Robin on 09/12/2017 23:33:47:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 09/12/2017 22:37:08

It is obvious that you have not bought any shellac ( french polish) lately !!!!!

No I haven't, a bottle of Rustin's button polish lasts me a long time. However, eBay shellac, £32.99/kg with free shipping.

I had not considered flakes – that sounds like what you are looking at. I am currently in the middle of polishing our yacht club tables & use it to kill the silicons after stripping & sanding which cause fish eye in the finish coats. Cost of the shellac is in the region of £ 100 per 5 litres. I need all of that poss a bit more. I will google shellac flakes & see what that comes up with

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Sam, if you are going to make your own shellac then you will need some clear Meth. spirit too.

After dissolving the shellac it will need filtering, for this I use muslin cloth, you may need to filter twice to get rid of small hard bits.

Clive

[MonomanParticipant @monoman]

I trust you know what the 'small hard bits' are.

If you buy shellac, flake or otherwise, from a reliable source, not trying to get the lowest price possible, you should not find any 'small hard bits'. Even now in 2017 those bits, which are not at all healthy in concentration, may be found in shellac as it arrives from Asia.

Shellac is a product of the Lac beetle. Look it up. Wikipedia has a long article on the subject. The process is not exactly as that article says. If you watch the process at first hand, at least in the former colonies of the Raj, the deposit is not scraped off but the twigs are / were heated by villagers over an open flame. The lac melted and was colected in bowls. Subsequent processing is used for purification.

Latterly the process has been updated as the producer countries have industrialised.

Shellac is used in and on foods! Price is a good indicator of quality.

Jerry

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