lathe tool cutting oils

[Don BrymerParticipant @donbrymer78910]

G’day All,

I read that “trefolex” is being used as a machining lubricant. This is not a safe practice.

Trefolex is an excellent product when used of the intended purpose i.e. a hand tools cutting compound. The manufacturer clearly states this on the container & also states that the product is not to be used on operations that will generate high temperatures.

I use Rocol RTD metal cutting iiquid undiluted for most machining operations on all metals especialy when screw cutting (a little expensive however) with HSS. It is applied with a small paint brush as I do not have a suds pump on my machine tools. All carbide machining is done dry as major smoking problems occur due to high cutting speeds for both turning & milling.

Regards,

Don.

Edited By Don Brymer on 07/10/2009 09:42:59

[Sandy MortonParticipant @sandymorton10620]

I made a coolant system from a BMW windscreen washer pump and tank, a few bits of pipe and a very cheap variable PSU.  Total cost was about £10 and it works brilliantly.

[John Moss 1Participant @johnmoss1]

For those who, like me, use WD40 – bear in mind that when the solvent part of the product evaporates, the remaining chemicals are like GLUE! It is possible to gum your slideway or even seize your chuck etc. if you don't oil everything that WD wet before leaving the machine unattended.

While fresh, WD40 can free-up something that may be gummed up with light rust or something, it does NOT leave OIL behind. It is designed to spray onto atomic weapon circuit boards and leave a corrosion-resistant layer behind. It needed regular re-sprays too!

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

I use a product called Alusol from Castrol because there was a recomendation somewhere else on here. Although it is normally used on aluminium the instructions state that it is suitable for other metals.

I use a much stronger mix than recomended but the appearence is like milk diluted with water meaning that it is possible to see through it to see the work as it's being machined.

So far there has been no problems with rusty marks on the bed where the saddle has been, a problem I have had in the past using conventional soluble oils.

An oily film is left behind that seems to stop rust forming on completed steel items.

It is available is small quanities from a supplier on the Internet.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Brian H You won't go wrong with Castrol [ as long as it's formulated for the material ] There are a couple of ones that are more suited to multi-metal operations than ALUSOL. Hysol X is exceptional. and caters for a very wide range of metals [ inc Aluminium ] Never any rusting of bed ways actually protects the way by lubrication.

I can't speak for any other make, but there is never any rusting with Castrol. Possibly the rust stains some others have noted [ none Castrol AFAIK] are due to over dilution.

If the ALUSOL works fine for you then stick to it . I only mentioned the HYSOL X as info for you or others.

[NigeParticipant @nige81730]

Does anybody have any experience, good or bad with these cutting fluids please.

MAXCUT No.5 Chlorine Free Neat Tapping & Cutting Fluid

from Arc Eurotrade and

Multispec Cutting & Tapping Fluid (Ref: MT5)

from Chronos.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

TURNING

Mostly dry cutting, but a slight trickle of soluble oil onto the tool, (gravity fed from shelf above lathe) or hand dribbled Neatcut, for parting off.

For Tapping (and Dieing) Rocol RTD, or bacon fat, smeared on by hand.

MILLING

Again, mostly dry, but Slitting Saws seem to benefit from Neatcut oil.

Howard

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 28/07/2017 15:19:10r bacon fat, smeared on by hand.

Howard

Bacon fat Howard!!!!! I'm a vegetarian!

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Nige on 26/07/2017 21:24:05:

Does anybody have any experience, good or bad with these cutting fluids please.

MAXCUT No.5 Chlorine Free Neat Tapping & Cutting Fluid

from Arc Eurotrade and

Multispec Cutting & Tapping Fluid (Ref: MT5)

from Chronos.

Nige,

I've used the Arc product and Dormer Supercut (**LINK**) but got fed up with the high price and bought some of this oil off ebay **LINK**.

Twice the price for 5 times the quantity and seems to do the job for me.

HTH

Jon

[NigeParticipant @nige81730]

Thank you Jon, the NEAT CUTTING stuff from eBay looks good

[larry PhelanParticipant @larryphelan54019]

Hi David Clark, Glad to see that yo are still around !,Keep hanging in there !!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Sorry Brian!

But the oldsters used tallow as a cutting lubricant, and for candles! And seems a pity to waste it!

Howard

[Anonymous]

It depends what you what to achieve. A crude rule of thumb is that for cooling, but not much lubrication, use soluble oil diluted with water. For lubrication, but not much cooling, use a neat cutting oil. These often have EP additives for operations like gear shaping where speeds are low, but cutting pressures can be high.

All the fluids mentioned seem to be aimed at tapping rather than flood coolant for general machining.

I often machine dry, but when I do need coolant I use soluble oils because I need the cooling function, and I always use flood coolant. Dribbling coolant onto the work really doesn't achieve anything. I used to use Biokool14 from Hallett Oils, but now use Hysol XF. And to forestall the expert comments, both sit in my tanks for many months at a time without causing smells.

With regards to the fluids mentioned I usually hand tap dry. For more difficult hand tapping (stainless steel or taps over 1" diameter) I use a Rocol grease like tapping goo. It works very well but can be a PITA to clean up, which is why I use only when necessary. Machine tapping on the vertical mill is done dry, on the repetition lathe I use flood coolant, simply because it is there.

Andrew

[GarthParticipant @garth]

Soluble oil is OK for band saw and surface grinder but would not use on my mills or lathes which have sumps and coolant pumps, for these I use sulpherised cutting oil and mix it with kerro [or paraffin for the Brits] works very well for all types of cutting. It has been in the machines for a number of years with an occasional top up no rust problems. Any grit contaminants settles to the bottom of the sumps so does not get recirculated.

I noted one user with a Harrison lathe did not like the oil allover the tray, I do not find this a problem on my Harrison it keeps every thing blathered in oil which discourages rust, I do use a lot of rags though.

Cheers Garth

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

Hi i delved back into the Cinese market and bouught one of these:

It seems to work ok and have removed pressure guage and replaced with 10mm . I am aware a mate uses a oil cutting flued that when you add it to water turns milky white . I am trying to find out what he uses . I searched and came across this old thread.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Martin Newbold on 20/12/2017 19:39:41:

…

I am aware a mate uses a oil cutting flued that when you add it to water turns milky white . I am trying to find out what he uses .

…

Try searching for Soluble Cutting Oil or SUDS. This example is on ebay at the moment.

Never tried it myself. I don't like the idea of splashing water about my tools in case it causes rust. I expect someone will tell us if that's just foolish prejudice!

Dave

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

i dont think its water after its mixed as it turns into an emulsion

[Anonymous]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/12/2017 19:53:19:

Never tried it myself. I don't like the idea of splashing water about my tools in case it causes rust. I expect someone will tell us if that's just foolish prejudice!

I couldn't possibly comment on the foolish part, but it is a prejudice.

I use water soluble oil flood coolant on all my machine tools; lathes, mills and grinders. I don't have a problem with rust. However, there is a caveat. The percentage mix of oil and water needs to be correct. As I know from experience if the mixture is too weak you will get spots of rust. When I top up the coolant I use a refractometer to check the mixture strength. I aim to be in the middle of the manufacturer's recommended range, 7% if I remember correctly for my coolant.

Andrew

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/12/2017 10:44:06

When I top up the coolant I use a refractometer to check the mixture strength. I aim to be in the middle of the manufacturer's recommended range, 7% if I remember correctly for my coolant.

Andrew

Andrew, is your refractometer something like this one?

**LINK**

Thanks

Nige

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/12/2017 10:44:06:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/12/2017 19:53:19:

Never tried it myself. I don't like the idea of splashing water about my tools in case it causes rust. I expect someone will tell us if that's just foolish prejudice!

I couldn't possibly comment on the foolish part, but it is a prejudice.

I use water soluble oil flood coolant on all my machine tools; lathes, mills and grinders. I don't have a problem with rust. However, there is a caveat. The percentage mix of oil and water needs to be correct. As I know from experience if the mixture is too weak you will get spots of rust. When I top up the coolant I use a refractometer to check the mixture strength. I aim to be in the middle of the manufacturer's recommended range, 7% if I remember correctly for my coolant.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew! I suspected it was a prejudice. It's truly foolish because despite being suspicious I couldn't be bothered to check and bought neat oil. Not only is it expensive, cutting oil might not be as good as a water emulsion at removing heat. Never mind, as mistakes go it won't break the bank. I'll switch to emulsion when it runs out.

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

I only tend to use lubricants when drilling on the lathe or for final cuts. I use soluble oil in a hand spray. For tapping I use tapping compound, can’t remember the make but it smells quite “organic”! As said slitting saws benefit from a lubricant so I use suds again in a spray bottle.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by tractionengine42 on 21/12/2017 11:56:16:

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/12/2017 10:44:06

When I top up the coolant I use a refractometer to check the mixture strength. I aim to be in the middle of the manufacturer's recommended range, 7% if I remember correctly for my coolant.

Andrew

Andrew, is your refractometer something like this one?

**LINK**

Thanks

Nige

That's the sort I've got. Seems a good price. Like Andrew, I use Castrol Hysol at 7% and I check it with one of these boys.

Very simple to use. Put a small droplet on the flat angled face, drop the flap down onto it (so the drop wets both surfaces), hold it up to the light and simply read off the value.

There are different versions for different applications and we want % of oil in water, not composition of (beer) wort. Obviously, the refractive index with 7% oil will be different to that of 7% sugar content. so make sure it is for the correct application – cutting fluid, not glycol coolant etc.

Murray

[Anonymous]

Posted by tractionengine42 on 21/12/2017 11:56:16:

Andrew, is your refractometer something like this one?

Muzzer beat me to it, but yes. I bought mine from Index Instruments as they're fairly close to me, near Huntingdon. It cost rather more than the Ebay one. However, to reiterate what Muzzer says they come in a wide selection to cover different liquids and ranges. Mine is specfically for cutting oils and covers the range 0-18%.

Andrew

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/12/2017 14:24:33:

Posted by tractionengine42 on 21/12/2017 11:56:16:

Andrew, is your refractometer something like this one?

Muzzer beat me to it, but yes. I bought mine from Index Instruments as they're fairly close to me, near Huntingdon. It cost rather more than the Ebay one. However, to reiterate what Muzzer says they come in a wide selection to cover different liquids and ranges. Mine is specfically for cutting oils and covers the range 0-18%.

Andrew

Andrew,

I have some queries for you please, if you don't mind answering?

1. You mentioned refractometer from Index Instruments, specifically for cutting oils. Did you mean this one.?

2. You mentioned that you use Castrol Hysol XF. Looking at the Technical Datasheet, it shows a Refractometer factor of 1.1. If the refractometer is the one which is shown in my point 1 – calibrated in % from 1% to 18%, does it mean that the 7% on the scale is 7% concentration, or, more like 7.7% ? i.e. Refractor Factor of 1.1 x 7% on the scale?

Ketan at ARC

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 21/12/2017 16:59:44

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

It might be best to calibrate a refractometer when you first get it by mixing up an accurate sample of coolant so that you know what reading corresponds to the concentration you want to use.

[Author]

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