Is Knurling a health hazard?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 09:10:39:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/05/2017 16:23:23:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 17/05/2017 10:54:02:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

…

…

…

…

The main point is that humans have lived around animals for millenia and our immune systems have adapted to cope with the pathogens and proteins encountered.

…

<Pedant Alert>

Humans are animals. That means we have immune systems that pre-date our current ape-like form right back to the origins of life. Possibly the big problem isn't that we are in trouble adapting to them, the problem is that, since the Industrial Revolution, they can't adapt to us.

<Pedant Alert>

Anyway the point I really wanted to make is that measuring health is more to do with statistics than personal experience. 'My granny lived till she was 98 and she smoked 80 a day and drank like a fish', is not good evidence for that life-style choice. The way immunity develops is often good for populations as a whole rather than for the individuals concerned. The trouble coming to conclusions from 'living on a farm is good for you' is that the population is small compared with the many variables that might be causing the effect. And in the long run Farming is associated with a high suicide rate.

Simple test cases that observe millions of participants are much more reliable. If you create a slab of bacteria-friendly nutrient and taper it with an antibiotic strong at one end, weak at the other, seeding with vulnerable bacteria at the weak end will result in antibiotic proof bacteria eventually appearing at the deadly end. That's very good news for the surviving bacteria, but not for the millions killed during the selection process!

Even with well designed experiments, you still have to take care with the analysis: it's not unknown for scientists trained to avoid 'Confirmation Bias' and the like to blunder badly. As in 'Cold Fusion' for example.

Dave

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by Mike Poole on 15/05/2017 20:55:30:

I note that Knurling on items like gym equipment is regarded as a hygiene risk due to skin deposits left in the knurl harbouring bacteria. It maybe worth giving our knurled items a clean now and again.

That's a cross-contamination issue, it's a non-issue for anyone who is the only user of their own equipment and/or anyone who properly cleans and oils their tools on a regular basis.

A much bigger threat to the species is the oft quoted desire amongst machine operators to stick their hands into moving tooling or work and their subsequent obsession with not storing anything anywhere which might tempt a brain-dead individual to reach over or through said tooling or work. 😀

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

"…….blunder badly. As in 'Cold Fusion' for example."

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek………and more germane to model engineering than evolution of immune systems…..

I used to be an occasional viewer of "Instructables". A website which sometimes contained items of workshop interest. Your reference to cold fusion reminded me of an "Instructable" on how to build a fusion reactor !

**LINK**

Perhaps one of our brethren has already built one to the instructions ??????????

If contemplating a build, please note one of the questions and its answer:-

Can you use it to light up a lightbulb?

christensent (author) No, the reactor puts out something like a millionth of a watt, and there's no practical system to capture that energy so you get nothing. Even if you could capture it, this power is so low that for example, it'd take well over an entire human lifetime to charge a cellphone once.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 13:21:52:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 09:10:39:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/05/2017 16:23:23:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 17/05/2017 10:54:02:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

…

…

…

…

The main point is that humans have lived around animals for millenia and our immune systems have adapted to cope with the pathogens and proteins encountered.

…

<Pedant Alert>

Humans are animals. That means we have immune systems that pre-date our current ape-like form right back to the origins of life. Possibly the big problem isn't that we are in trouble adapting to them, the problem is that, since the Industrial Revolution, they can't adapt to us.

Of course we are. Perhaps I should have said 'Humans have been around other animals for millenia. Particularly domesticated farm animals'.

regards Martin

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

The mention of Porton Down takes me back to my time at A&AEE Boscombe. One of the (D) Helo Sqdn tasks was the annual deer count for culling estimates. The wild life at Porton was quite amazing – apart from a VERY special orchid (protected by its own fencing), the deer were in marvellous condition and the foxes were the sleekest, healthiest looking examples I've ever seen. Presumably being fenced in and, generally, undisturbed, provided an ideal habitat. Funny combination of function … nasty nasties and ultra eco-friendliness!!

rgds

Bill

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 13:21:52:

Even with well designed experiments, you still have to take care with the analysis: it's not unknown for scientists trained to avoid 'Confirmation Bias' and the like to blunder badly. As in 'Cold Fusion' for example.

Dave

I know this is a red herring but I would have to add that the cold fusion topic is not as dead and buried as you might think, the research simply carries on under a different name.

Michael W

[egaParticipant @ega]

Mike E.:

As a barrier cream for dry (ie not involving water) work I have found nothing to beat PR88; certainly not cheap but very economical used correctly.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 14:06:37:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 13:21:52:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 09:10:39:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/05/2017 16:23:23:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 17/05/2017 10:54:02:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

…

…

…

…

The main point is that humans have lived around animals for millenia and our immune systems have adapted to cope with the pathogens and proteins encountered.

…

<Pedant Alert>

Humans are animals. That means we have immune systems that pre-date our current ape-like form right back to the origins of life. Possibly the big problem isn't that we are in trouble adapting to them, the problem is that, since the Industrial Revolution, they can't adapt to us.

Of course we are. Perhaps I should have said 'Humans have been around other animals for millenia. Particularly domesticated farm animals'.

regards Martin

Martin, you are completely innocent of all charges. My fault. I knew exactly what you meant and not only that agreed with it. Trouble is I'm in a funny mood today and just couldn't resist being a pedant. Sorry…

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 09:10:39:mune systems' does not stack up with 'fewer infections'. More infections would excercise the immune system.You need the exposure to train the system. Asthma is an allergic reaction.

You really need to habituate not sensitise. Small amounts of intermittant exposure sensitises and then you get an allergic reaction. Continuous exposure habituates and you don't. It's not as simple as you would think.

The main point is that humans have lived around animals for millenia and our immune systems have adapted to cope with the pathogens and proteins encountered. Urban living has removed most af the exposure and that causes issues.

You are probably right about farm kids having fewer infections that lead to illness but that may be because of the lifestyle, exercise, food , fresh air etc.

regards Martin

You're right, I should be saying 'fewer serious infections'

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 13:21:52:

The trouble coming to conclusions from 'living on a farm is good for you' is that the population is small compared with the many variables that might be causing the effect. And in the long run Farming is associated with a high suicide rate.

The research I looked up was in the USA, which has quite a lot of farms!

There are all sorts of other problems around farming – zoonoses, poisoning, getting eaten by tractors … the most dangerous occupation in the UK, at least it was about 20 years ago.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/05/2017 17:36:28:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 13:21:52:

….

There are all sorts of other problems around farming – zoonoses, …

Neil

Zoonoses! New word of the day thank you. For a dedicated hypochondriac like me it's an absolute gift. I can't wait to see my GP again.

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

First time I've ever had an excuse to use the word (which means diseases you get from being sneezed at by animals ).

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Thinking of new words, one of the very latest is 'Ikea Effect', or the tendency to like something more if you have built or created it yourself.

Also, 'Catio', an enclosed area outside a house for pet cats. Articles on Catio building would surely be most welcome in MEW Magazine…

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 19:11:37

[John FlackParticipant @johnflack59079]

How about a 'ratio' for pet rats ……….😛😛

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/05/2017 18:29:04:

First time I've ever had an excuse to use the word (which means diseases you get from being sneezed at by animals ).

Neil

I had to go back one page to see if you'ld found a specific word for zoonotic coryza….

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by John Flack on 18/05/2017 20:34:27:

How about a 'ratio' for pet rats ……….😛😛

Just be careful you don't get pest control show up at your door!

And you'd need a solution to keep out the neighbourhood cats.

Michael W

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 19:11:11:

Thinking of new words, one of the very latest is 'Ikea Effect'

.

… and there was I, fondly believing you to be a true pedant.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 19/05/2017 07:52:01:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 19:11:11:

Thinking of new words, one of the very latest is 'Ikea Effect'

.

… and there was I, fondly believing you to be a true pedant.

MichaelG.

It's an old adage that every True Pedant's duty is to amuse the others, preferably by making foolish mistakes…

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 16:52:11:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 14:06:37:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 13:21:52:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 18/05/2017 09:10:39:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/05/2017 16:23:23:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 17/05/2017 10:54:02:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

Martin, you are completely innocent of all charges.

HaHarr, can I have a cerstificut to proove it.I'm sure I have never been innocent before.

:0)

Martin

(is rhinitis being allergic to rhinos?)

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 19/05/2017 09:10:29:

(is rhinitis being allergic to rhinos?)

..hence the hippocratic oath?

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Posted by ega on 18/05/2017 16:41:20:

Mike E.:

As a barrier cream for dry (ie not involving water) work I have found nothing to beat PR88; certainly not cheap but very economical used correctly.

Thank you.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/05/2017 19:11:11:

Also, 'Catio', an enclosed area outside a house for pet cats. Articles on Catio building would surely be most welcome in MEW Magazine…

Dave

Well who'd of thought it:

You can get your very own plan ***HERE***

John

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

They should be compulsory, every time I dig a bit of garden my neighbours cat thinks I have made him a new toilet, he had to pinch off a bit early when I spotted him the other day and ran at him waving a stick.

Mike

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

"They should be compulsory, every time I dig a bit of garden my neighbours cat thinks I have made him a new toilet, he had to pinch off a bit early when I spotted him the other day and ran at him waving a stick."

Alternatively get a Rottweiler like we did – haven't seen a cat in the garden for years. Mind you, the volume of excrement to be cleared is substantially greater.

[Does this Forum Post qualify for the widest digression ever from original topic ?]

[Author]

Posts