Is CNC cheating

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Stevenson on 04/09/2016 10:13:33:
Think I should enter a cnc built armchair into the next MEX ?

Just buy one and say you made it yourself.

Martin.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 04/09/2016 10:13:33:
Think I should enter a cnc built armchair into the next MEX ?

.

Definitely … But please don't incorporate any of those LASER-engraved "dovetails" that you showed us before.

MichaelG.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by John Stevenson on 04/09/2016 10:13:33:
Think I should enter a cnc built armchair into the next MEX ?

If it can win you more points than that sense of humour then go for it.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 04/09/2016 10:25:52

[michael mParticipant @michaelm]

Posted by John Stevenson on 04/09/2016 09:08:00:
"Anybody else thinks we have missed the point and are now onto armchair semantics ?"

Sorry John, you've missed the point. Thats what the forum's all about. Are you still stuck in those halcyon days when it was about mechanical craftsmanship?

It seems to have moved on from armchair engineering, wonder what's next.

Michael

[Anonymous]

Posted by Dave Martin on 04/09/2016 10:10:09:

Don't open any more cans of worms! – next thing we'll have is angst about whether you should have declared if it was an Ikea armchair or a hand-bodged chair made from greenwood on a manual pole-lathe!

Not to mention whether it was a metric or imperial armchair…….

Andrew

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Is talking about this on an Internet forum cheating, or should we be writing letters?

Martin.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I bet the royal family doesn't understand all this fuss about cnc, why, when they already have all those little people to do it for them?

Michael W

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

I hope you are typing the conversation Martin rather than talking to Cortana or whoever she is?

Mark

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Mark C on 04/09/2016 11:09:20:

I hope you are typing the conversation Martin rather than talking to Cortana or whoever she is?

Mark

The problem with Cortana is that she doesn't understand how to be confidential – she's the 'Mrs Honeyman' of the internet, so I don't have much to do with her. She's more of a gossip than a know-all in my view.

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 04/09/2016 11:48:10

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Stevenson on 04/09/2016 10:13:33:
Think I should enter a cnc built armchair into the next MEX ?

Here you go:

Looks like a perfect project for a CNC router.

Which raises the question: Would the same thing cut out by hand with a coping saw and finished with a rasp be "more real" craftstmanship?

What about if you cut out the laminates by hand but using an electric jig saw and finished with a sanding disk in the electric drill? Machine made or hand made in that case?

Plenty to ponder in the CNC armchair to be sure.

Edited By Hopper on 04/09/2016 12:27:02

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/09/2016 10:11:07:

Posted by Hopper on 04/09/2016 09:48:38:

.

The same 103 readers coming back multiple times more like it.

.

MTM's advertising department, and its clients, will be rather disappointed if that's true.

Perhaps Neil has some 'analytics' available ?

MichaelG.

Dirty little secret of most net advertising. There's a reason it's dying. Google and Facebook are predicted to suck up 90 per cent of it in coming few years, using targeted "content", making forums like this a thing of the past, sadly. So the gurus tell us anyway.

Edited By Hopper on 04/09/2016 12:40:22

Edited By Hopper on 04/09/2016 12:47:35

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Martin, perhaps that is why she is a "she?

If they made a Mr Cortana perhaps he would not be much use 'cos he would not pass stuff on to everyone and their dog…

Mark

(I know, I just upset half the population but hey-ho)

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Once we all have home units that fuse powdered or liquidised metals and print the part then this discussion might broaded further. Just think… you might even get to print your own HSS tool blanks….

If memory serves there was a sci-fi series where warefare was banned using any weaponry post 1910 as being too devastating. Perhaps model engineering model classes could demand limits on the dated history of the tool types used to make the model: pre1900, preWW2, pre home computers, pre 2010 etc

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Just swap the router for a plasma torch?

Mark

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 04/09/2016 09:48:38:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/09/2016 18:05:51:

The saddest thing about this thread, aside from the bickering, is that Neil's poll has only attracted 103 votes.

… Where are the other thousands [?] of readers ?

MichaelG.

What thousands of other readers? The same 103 readers coming back multiple times more like it. Plus doubtless a number of others who take a look at the thread and regard it as too much tosspottery to be bothered with. It is quite possible there are many who simply don't give a toss.

Actually, though, the participation rate in the poll is about 1.8% which is towards the upper end which is typically 0-1 -2% across the web, and of course our count includes a high proportion of repeat visits so the percentage of actual users voting is probably much higher (and see how number of voters is bigger than the number of posters – people follow this without necessarily participating in the discussion).

Try put 'CNC cheating' into Google (but make sure you do it in a way that stops it giving you 'relevant results&#39 and see where this page comes in the rankings. That is the reason why forums like this will continue to survive – they provide genuine engagement and web search engines recognise active forums and topics.

Secondly, I'm sure any of our advertisers that sell CNC machines would rather expose their ads to many voters who actively feel the use of CNC is 'acceptable' to putting it before thousands of random or disengaged viewers on some other site.

So what forums like this offer advertisers is a both targeted and engaged audience.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The most surprising thing to me about the poll result is the mostly positive reaction to CNC.

I was similarly surprised with the recent "Should I buy a Metric or Imperial Lathe?" thread, which came down in heavily in favour of Metric. (With good reasons why Imperial might sometimes be more appropriate.)

It's hard to imagine results like that coming out a few years ago. Has something changed?

Dave

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Perhaps some of the flat earth society have taken a step too far ?

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Nooooo JS , the flat earth mob are dyed in the wool [ its in their DNA ] unless of course they have fell off the edge. To admit that CNC is every bit as skilled as manual really would be a step to far.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/09/2016 14:47:04:

Secondly, I'm sure any of our advertisers that sell CNC machines would rather expose their ads to many voters who actively feel the use of CNC is 'acceptable' to putting it before thousands of random or disengaged viewers on some other site.

So what forums like this offer advertisers is a both targeted and engaged audience.

Neil

With a thread like this, as an advertiser ARC would prefer to distance itself from it because there is very little by way of positives to be gained from watching people get angry. The title of the thread and the opening post needed to be clearer about their objective…. I.e. 'Is CNC cheating In a competition environment.' or similarly titled. As it stands, for me as an advertiser, it is useless, even if it is on the first page of Google search.

Such a query fails to equate into conversion rates for ARC. It does however improve global ranking for this site, which in turn gives results for advertising on here.

However, this improvement in global ranking would be meaningless if the site is associated with taking this direction. There are examples…such as a popular mini-lathe forum where there is a lo of useless unmoderated information to be found.

Ketan @ ARC

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I think this discussion highlights what some of my friends who are mainly into bikes etc, have said about this hobby (Model Engineering) its not for them, they won't attend ME type shows etc, they have been with me in the past, but I end up going on my own most of the time, I've made clocks, Aero engines, model bike engines, I'm building a steam loco (slowly), and I build and restore bikes, and pretty much anything else that takes my fancy, but am I a model engineer? I don't personally think so, I would prefer home engineer or something similar.

I do think this hobby is focused too far in the past, not just the Magazines but the shows, I like to see steam locos and clocks a etc, but at the shows its the same models more or less every year.

If we want to attract people like my mates who have lathes etc, but cringe at the notion of being called a model engineer, and if they found a steam loco would use it as a source of scrap metal.

Should we have another pole can / should this hobby move on technologically?

Shaun

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Ketan,

I don’t see people getting mad in this thread more a divergence of opinions. I’m heavily into promoting CNC but in my daily job I’m predominantly manual purely by this method being best for repair work as opposed to manufacturing.

The results of the poll also surprised me and Shaun’s comment on workshop owners not making models.

Now I can see where ME gets its name from but MEW could easily loose the Model from its title and cater more to a broader audience.

The Americans have it right with Home Shop Machinist, a title that caters for all.

I’m guessing that of the ‘alternative’ ( meant nicely ) the majority are vintage / classic bike guys ?

So how about a small monthly column on making / repairing a bike part ?

Even for the non bike crowd the process could be interesting

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Okay John, but I would have to disagree, based on understanding or misunderstanding what was the real objective of this title.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by John Stevenson on 04/09/2016 17:17:15:

The results of the poll also surprised me and Shaun's comment on workshop owners not making models.

Now I can see where ME gets its name from but MEW could easily loose the Model from its title and cater more to a broader audience.

The Americans have it right with Home Shop Machinist, a title that caters for all.

I'm guessing that of the 'alternative' ( meant nicely ) the majority are vintage / classic bike guys ?

So how about a small monthly column on making / repairing a bike part ?

Even for the non bike crowd the process could be interesting

Working backwards:

a monthly column on making/repairing a 'part' is an excellent idea – the reverse engineering of the locking wheelnut key was the most interesting part of the current MEW.

I recently made a pair aircraft jacking adapters for a friend, to replace ones that were apparently "really expensive". Modelling them in CAD to work out the taper angle was educational, as was making them in one piece from 38mm stock. I would now make them two pieces, with the 20x4mm diameter pin inserted into the larger part. The £25 covered a round of drinks after ringing practice, so it all seems like a good use of 90minutes to me.

I'm 'alternative', but it's usually parts and tools for old cars and hotrods, plus repairs.

Home Shop Machinist is a horrible phrase, but it is much more descriptive for those of us who will never make a model. Although a simple clock is something I would like to try.

Edited By Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 04/09/2016 19:04:49

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I try to characterise MEW readers as 'Model and Hobby Engineers'.

Making/repairing a part is an excellent idea, I'll start a separate thread though as any ideas will get lost here.

As the discussion is moving on, perhaps I should close this thread and start a separate thread for more positive discussion about what people would like to see (and to encourage more & varied short articles – if I don't get more 1 & 2 pagers I'll have to kick Stub Mandrel and tell him to get busy).

If I get a couple of posts in agreement I'll just close this thread as having run its course.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/09/2016 19:21:44:

Making/repairing a part is an excellent idea, I'll start a separate thread though as any ideas will get lost here.

Neil

I thought the suggestion was for a page or two in MEW not a new thread which is really covered in the work in progress & completed items section.

Agree this threda has run its course

[Author]

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