HQS taps and dies – anyone tried them?

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

I need some BSW taps and dies and had a look at the Tap and Die Company's website – they do them in something they call HQS: I quote:

"1/4 BSW tap = 1/4 x 20 BSW taps in taper second bottoming / plug EXCELLENT 1st quality HQS (Highest Quality Steel, considered a tougher and better alternative to HSS) cuts even into most stainless steel All in stock".

These are significantly cheaper than their HSS equivalents – which they say "cut stainless steel" – without the "most" qualifier note. Anyone know what this HQS stuff is, and if it's any good? "Highest quality steel" sounds a bit like vague marketing-speak to me. Might I be better off with plain old carbon steel? They're for a one-off in brass and ali, and as I rarely work in imperial I don't want to shell out for HSS if I can avoid it.

Robin.

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

HQS taps and dies are carbon steel, I couldn't testify as to the steel grade or quality but HQS taps that I have bought have looked ok and worked well on a range of materials. Cheaper carbon steel taps have in some cases been ok and other cases terrible.

IMO for a tap or die that isn't to be used often then buying HQS will be a better guarantee of a tap or die that will cut a good thread otherwise, buy cheaper carbon steel taps ahd dies from and reputable supplier who will replace a faulty product.

 

Nige

Edited By tractionengine42 on 22/07/2018 23:51:34

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have a search of te hforum, HQS has come up a few times.

The couple that I have cut OK.

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Have a look at Arceurotrade website they are selling off their imperial tsps dies.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I have a couple of box sets from Tap &Die and they are good quality carbon steel, I think they would do well to drop the HQS thing as it is near meaningless and casts doubt in people's minds about what they are buying. I am pleased with what I purchased as I wanted to be in a position of having the right tap and die to hand and as they need replacing I will go for HSS ground thread as the ones I use most should need replacing first. Some people like to keep cutting tools for brass separate from steel tools or use them on steel after they lose that new keen edge on brass.

Mike

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Never heard of that stuff before. I thought there was only HSS or Carbon.

I live and learn !

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

The price sound good at the start. By the time you get to the bottom line and its too late to back out of the deal, you are not saving much.

Everything out of india is 'best quality'. I would hate to see something come out of India that was not graded that way.

Generally pleased with what i have had from tap and die company, but feel their are better alternatives available.

You do get a free pen, so it must be good!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robin Graham on 22/07/2018 22:58:13:

I need some BSW taps and dies … 1/4 BSW …

They're for a one-off in brass and ali, and as I rarely work in imperial

.

Given that procurement spec, I would be astonished if you couldn't find what you need at a local Car Boot Sale.

MichaelG.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Almost everything you see is advertised as "Best quality"

I am reminded of the old saying that " A fishwife never sells rotten fish,it,s always fresh fish "

Same difference ?

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I've no experience of either HQS, or this retailer, but am a little curious as to their marketing.

From their web site. Quote;

Our HSS-GT Ground thread range are made to precision ISO-529 making them very superior precision tools for machine or hand tapping – cuts stainless steel

Our HQS (=Highest Quality Steel) range (sold since 1978) are made to BS-949 are found to be a tougher and better alternative to HSS taps & dies and are lower in price and excellent quality and used for hand or machine tapping – cuts most stainless steel

When I looked up BS-949, it seems that it has been replaced by ISO-529 LINK

Is it just me that feels that this could be a bit misleading?

Bill

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by peak4 on 23/07/2018 11:17:11:

….

When I looked up BS-949, it seems that it has been replaced by ISO-529 LINK

Is it just me that feels that this could be a bit misleading?

Bill

Since those documents appear to relate to tap dimensions rather than material quality I don't think that's an issue… just a switch to eu/international standards rather than imperial.

pgk

[NigeParticipant @nige81730]

Peak4: I don't think it is misleading as long as they were made to the original BS-949. The fact that the standard has been renumbered doesn't necessarily mean the old standard isn't any good 😊

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

HQS and HQSS both come up every few years:

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=37121

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=132869&p=1

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=90393

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=61373

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

I bought a set of BSF from The Tap & Die Company a few years ago to help with maintaining an Austin Seven and can only say that the set has been well used on steel, cast iron, aluminium and brass/bronze with no problems.

I would certainly use T&D for any future buys.

Brian

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

'Quality' must be a contender for being most misused word on the planet! No engineer should take it seriously without a definition of how 'quality' can be measured. Any talk of quality in the absence of a specification is probably b*ll*cks.

However, these taps might well be made of a real thing. 'HQS' was used by our sloppy forefathers to indicate a high-carbon tool steel. No more, no less. As steel alloys go it's cheap and not difficult to make. Because it has the property of being particularly sharp and hard, high-carbon tool-steel makes decent hand taps and dies. On the downside, it's brittle and loses hardness at low temperatures, so not suitable for power tapping or clumsy operators.

Most engineering is about compromise. As one who infrequently threads soft-ish metals I've had perfectly respectable long-term results out of carbon-steel taps and dies. If I did a lot of threading of more difficult metals, it's likely that a more expensive set would pay off. In context of 'how much' and 'how often' I have to decide what I mean by 'quality' : a seller using the word in an advert is unlikely to help. I have to look deeper, which is what Robin did by asking his question. As his requirement is minimal, I think MichaelG's advice is spot on: 'Given that procurement spec, I would be astonished if you couldn't find what you need at a local Car Boot Sale.'

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It's strange how many here rush to recomend Tracey Tools then get all uptight about HQS.

Maybe take a closer look at what you got from Tracey as they quiet often supply T&D Co HQS. That's where the ones I have came from.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Clarke's taps and dies are made of summat they call 'high quality tungsten steel' – I wonder if that's the same or similar stuff? HQTS?

Certainly got no issue with it – for my sort of use, one set lasted 15 years before enough of them became blunt, chipped or broken to justify buying a new set (which, incidentally, appears better-ground than the old).

[VicParticipant @vic]

As a point of interest I bought a HSS M2.5 Tap on eBay from China a couple of weeks ago for 99p inc postage and what turned up was a quality Yamawa branded Japanese tap. One uk supplier wanted £15.54 inc postage.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Nige on 23/07/2018 11:34:23:

Peak4: I don't think it is misleading as long as they were made to the original BS-949. The fact that the standard has been renumbered doesn't necessarily mean the old standard isn't any good 😊

No I'm not suggesting either standard is "Better"; it's just that they way I read the quote suggested to me, that the HSS taps were reputed to be "Superior", due to them being made to ISO-529 rather than its predecessor BS-949 (and not the material they were made from, which I don't think is covered in either standard anyway).

The quote then goes on to say that HQS is a "better" alternative to HSS anyway.

Just struggling to get my head round "advertising speak", and not having a dig at either product; I suspect both would do most jobs I threw at them.

Bill

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Some carbon steel can be made harder and sharper than some HSS, although this doesn't mean it is more durable or less likely to lose its temper.

It does mean that contradictory claims can be founded on truth, even if they shed little light.

N.

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Thanks for replies. HQS=CS then. I can get decent CS over the counter from a local supplier for about the same price, I just wondered if if this HQS stuff was something special and I'd be getting more bang for my buck. Seems not.

As it turns out a forum member has kindly offered to sell me what I need from his surplus stock of British made taps and dies, so I'm sorted. Wonderful!

MichaelG – car boots must be different in your neck of the woods, round here they're fine if you want a 10 year old My Little Pony Stable complete with infantile gnawings, but not so great for taps and ties. Or anything else useful.

Robin.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robin Graham on 24/07/2018 00:28:30:

MichaelG – car boots must be different in your neck of the woods, round here they're fine if you want a 10 year old My Little Pony Stable complete with infantile gnawings, but not so great for taps and ties. Or anything else useful.

Robin.

.

Glad you're sorted, Robin

My favoured Car Boot is not very far from Sheffield, so I suppose that must skew things a little.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robin Graham on 24/07/2018 00:28:30:

Thanks for replies. HQS=CS then. I can get decent CS over the counter from a local supplier for about the same price, I just wondered if if this HQS stuff was something special and I'd be getting more bang for my buck. Seems not.

…

HQS is special in that it's at the top end of the range for Tool Steel hardness, which is desirable in taps and dies.

There's a good chance that your 'decent CS over the counter from a local supplier', is HQS, or at least a close relative. Depending on how you use the tool, you might get more bang for your buck, because they cut 10% more threads before going blunt than a softer steel would. But being brittle, you might break it before it goes blunt. This is particularly true of small taps, where HSS or Tungsten reduce the risk of breakage.

Buying tools is a bit of a minefield. Always worth asking on the forum but beware of:

1. Chaps like me, who see tools as disposable. Our mistake is to buy too cheap.
2. Chaps who see tools as heirlooms, recommending only expensive high-end equipment. Their mistake is putting beginners on a budget off the hobby completely. It is not necessary to have a workshop full of beautiful tools to have fun or to get good results.

In practice, most people hover between the two extremes, happy to pick up second-hand bargains in good nick, and not too upset if those cheap drills turn out to be made of cheese.

Dave

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Robin Graham on 24/07/2018 00:28:30:

…

MichaelG – car boots must be different in your neck of the woods, round here they're fine if you want a 10 year old My Little Pony Stable complete with infantile gnawings, but not so great for taps and ties. Or anything else useful.

Robin.

Aha. Another veteran…

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