How to soften steel

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Neil I have measured the sizes & yes it will protrude over the cross slide by 1/4" as the whole unit is total 1/2" larger than the one on now.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

So tonight's project because of something said on here that I had not thought of was to Turn down a backplate I had to fit the 4 jaw chuck. I removed the 3 jaw & screwed the backplate on tight. It went right up to the rear shoulder so was in the right place. I then set up a imperial dial gauge to the lathe bed. Touched it to the front face of the plate & it was 5 thou runout. So 1st job I did was face off the plate & then rechecked. Less than a 1/4 of a thou. I turned down the diameter to exact size to be a tight fit in the chuck rear recess. Everything gone great. Only thing I now need is a 5/16 Whit tap. Back to my mates to borrow one tomorrow. The reason I decided to get on with doing the chuck was because, one of you guys had said why mill the toolholders down. Put them in a 4 jaw chuck & turn them down. Brilliant idea & something I hadn't thought about. So onwards & beyond. Another comment to me was why not leave the standard toolholder on for a couple of years until you gain experience with the machine. There is a slight problem there. I am at an age where a lot of my close friends have gone. No not fallen out with me, They've got flowers growing out of there bum's. Caput. So me waiting 2 years to fit a QC toolpost. MMMMMM. Another from dear Neil is the way I transposed the comment was get rid of the Myford & buy a boxford or an SC4 . I had a boxford many years ago that came from a college, it was ok I suppose but Nah. An SC4 on the other hand I haven't a clue what one is. A few pics as usual to follow. A sincere thanks to all you guy's & Neil for the tips you have given me. Oh & that live centre in the above picture is made of butter 1st time used yesterday & the point is kna— all ready & no it was not bottomed out. Wonder where it was made. Sheffield ????. Also made a key for the cross slide locking bolts from a reversed 3/8" drive skt.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

The "Backplate" that you have fitted to the 4 jaw chuck is actually a Catchplate, used with a drive dog in the slot, for turning between centres; but never mind. Might be more useful in its new role.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 19/01/2020 08:46:32:

The "Backplate" that you have fitted to the 4 jaw chuck is actually a Catchplate, used with a drive dog in the slot, for turning between centres; but never mind. Might be more useful in its new role.

But likely an out-of-balance situation, particularly at highest speeds.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Posted by Steviegtr on 18/01/2020 14:04:51:

Thanks for the comments. The reason I was going to change the tool post was that when I bought the lathe it came with a box of parts. In there were about 20 cutting tools, all 1/2" square. There were 3 small ones between 8 & 10mm square. 1 is chipped. So that's the reason. If I leave it for a few years as advised, until I am up to scratch with working it. I will have to buy some more cutting tools of the smaller size. Is that the way to go.

1/2" square is much bigger than you need on a Myford. If you're going to use HSS, buy some 3/8 or 5/16 HSS blanks, they are cheap enough. Actually for most turning jobs a simple RH knife tool will work, so you only need one! Smaller HSS is easier to grind as well.

Or, get a Diamond toolholder from Eccentric Engineering, or make one (lots of discussion here). It will do almost everything you need except boring.

Making extensive mods to a machine tool to suit a few superannuated lumps of HSS is a waste of time.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Stevie, again slow down!

A man at your stage of learning is likely to make mistakes (everybody does).

First, finding a few 1/2" HSS tools in the collection of stuff that came with a second-hand lathe isn't a good reason to modify a lathe. In my earlier list of Myford disadvantages, I didn't mention failure to take 1/2" tools because Myfords aren't meant to – they work perfectly well with the tool-post they come with. And, even though my bigger lathe than Super 7 will take that size, I mostly use the next size down (10mm), or smaller. It's because small tools are more convenient for fine work.

Secondly, death of friends and relatives is not a valid reason for rushing to install a QCTP. And if you've only got two years to live, modifying an oversized QCTP to fit will waste a considerable chunk of your valuable time. And it's time stolen from other important learning. How useful a QCTP is depends on the type of work done, and I submit they are of zero value to learners. Admittedly I'm a slow worker, but 10 years since I bought my first lathe, I've not done anything where a QCTP would have made an important difference. Although they're convenient and speed-up tool swapping considerably, they're not that much slower than a 4-way with carbide inserts where each tool is kept with a ready to go set of shims. In the absence of a practical reason for fitting one, a QCTP is just bling, like making a tail-stock turret and never finding a use for it.

Thirdly, modifying a lathe before it's normal condition is understood is a bad idea because if trouble is encountered later, it can be very difficult to decide if the bother is caused by a fault in the lathe, or is due to the modifications, or because the operator hasn't learned the ropes yet. If in a couple of months, this lathe struggles to get a decent finish, it will be harder for forum friends to pin down the root cause because the lathe and QCTP have been modified prematurely.

My advice, start with the bog-standard tool-post and buy some HSS to fit it. Get some known steel, brass and aluminium and practice turning rod in a variety of diameters from tiny to big. When you can reliably get a good finish on all of them and turn and bore to within 0.02mm, then move on to long workpieces and screw-cutting, perhaps as part of a project. I'd guess Stevie has about 6 months basic training to do. There's a lot to machining well, for example beginners often have a short struggle learning the importance of setting tool height correctly. Not rocket science or difficult, but height setting must be done right. Many other small details to be absorbed before consistently good results will be got from any machine. If it wasn't like that we'd soon get bored in our workshops!

The exception to what I'm suggesting is when the hobby is about working on machines rather than with them. This is perfectly respectable, for instance I admire the chaps who beautifully restore vintage cars with no intention of commuting round the M25 in them. I know a chap who keeps a fancy motorbike in an immaculate double garage workshop with a tidy bench, tools neatly organised on the walls, bright lights, a hydraulic lift, and a big Snap-On tool cabinet packed with expensive spanners. While he enjoys tinkering with his bike, anything major is done by the dealer. Good for self-esteem to knows he can do all his own maintenance, but he prefers paying someone else to do the hard work. I would look down on his disgraceful laziness, except it's not far from what I do with my car and certain domestic appliances…

The important thing is to enjoy what you do!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/01/2020 11:21:11

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by John Haine on 19/01/2020 09:08:11:

Posted by Steviegtr on 18/01/2020 14:04:51:

Thanks for the comments. The reason I was going to change the tool post was that when I bought the lathe it came with a box of parts. In there were about 20 cutting tools, all 1/2" square. There were 3 small ones between 8 & 10mm square. 1 is chipped. So that's the reason. If I leave it for a few years as advised, until I am up to scratch with working it. I will have to buy some more cutting tools of the smaller size. Is that the way to go.

1/2" square is much bigger than you need on a Myford. If you're going to use HSS, buy some 3/8 or 5/16 HSS blanks, they are cheap enough. Actually for most turning jobs a simple RH knife tool will work, so you only need one! Smaller HSS is easier to grind as well.

Or, get a Diamond toolholder from Eccentric Engineering, or make one (lots of discussion here). It will do almost everything you need except boring.

Making extensive mods to a machine tool to suit a few superannuated lumps of HSS is a waste of time.

That.

Spend a tenner on some smaller HSS, or an 8mm carbide holder(you really only need one type to start with) and tips, that are appropriate for your machine and get on with learning how to use it efficiently. My WM250 is a little bigger and more powerful than a Myford, but a home made diamond tool holder happily takes 4mm deep cuts with a 3mm toolbit – any bigger would be a waste of money, material and time spent grinding them

Or, perhaps you could swap your large tooling for some that is smaller?

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by Steviegtr on 19/01/2020 00:22:23:

… Oh & that live centre in the above picture is made of butter 1st time used yesterday & the point is kna— all ready & no it was not bottomed out. Wonder where it was made. Sheffield ????

The centre shown in the picture could well be a "live" centre designed to go in the spindle and may therefore be soft. A centre in the tailstock is a dead centre and should be hardened and used with grease/tallow in the centre drilling. The other type of centre for the tailstock is a rotating centre.

So Live – spindle, dead – tailstock, rotating – tailstock.

John

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Picture looks to show a rotating centre if that is the one being referred too. Appears to have a couple of round holes in a retaining ring holding bearings for a peg spanner? You need to be doing something wrong to screw the point on a rotating centre if the bearings are ok!

Given we now have a catch plate on the back of a chuck, reduced thickness slide to take a monster tool post, desire to use oversized tools and a knackered centre, this journey isn't going particularly well. I think the OP would do well to take SOD advice and slow down a bit.

Paul.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Ctr hole has been drilled too deep so that it is full diameter of the bit leaving a hard edge to mash the revolving ctr. You can see it better by clicking the image in the earlier post.

Edited By JasonB on 19/01/2020 13:28:23

Edited By JasonB on 19/01/2020 13:28:42

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Good spot Jason. Revolving centre that revolves should have still gone round though despite being up against a hard edge? Maybe excessive pressure from the tailstock too? Maybe as Journeyman suggested it wasn't the revolving centre in the picture he was using, that would do it. No sign of grease or tallow though if it was.

Paul.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I put some castrol edge on the tip & it was turning. I may have put too much pressure on it & I had no lead drill when used, have one now but used ordinary drill so wrong angle. So probably is my fault . I thought they would be made from a hard material. It files so easy so very soft. When I bought it I asked for a live centre & that's what I got. Some are saying it is not a live centre but a revolving centre. Can someone explain the difference. Surely the lathe tools sales guy would have known.??

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Image below might help:

Live & dead centres are the same just that a live one can be soft whereas a dead one must be hard. The "live" bit is because it goes round as it is driven by the lathe spindle. The  revolving centre has inbuilt bearings which allow it to rotate when driven by the workpiece.

(Image is from my website Journeyman's Workshop might throw some light on things, there's a lathe glossary on there as well)

John

Edited By Journeyman on 19/01/2020 15:19:23

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Thanks for that. I was advised to purchase 3 books, & I have from Blackwells bookshop. I look forward to reading them

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Just to add to that the soft live ctr that goes into the headstock is soft so that it can be trued up in position for the best possible accuracy.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

After reading the comments it is clear to me that I should have waited until I had a centre drill instead of using a normal drill with the wrong angle. The centre was pushing against a sharp edge effectively. It was turning but was new & a little tight. I did oil it but have since put some penetrating oil in it & it turns freely now. So just re-oiled it & all good. Thanks. Also the backplate was spare & I know the wrong one really but should be ok. As some said it may go out of balance, but won't think it should be a problem run slowly. It is a make do until I find a more suitable one. Strange that of the 3 backplates that came with the lathe , that is the only one that screws on fully. I think the other 2 must be from an earlier model.

Steve..

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Steviegtr on 19/01/2020 00:22:23:

Another from dear Neil is the way I transposed the comment was get rid of the Myford & buy a boxford or an SC4 .

I wasn't suggesting that at all, just giving an idea of what size lathe the 111 is meant for (in fact it's technically too big for the SC4 (a jump up from the SC3 mini lathe in size), which is 4" centre height, unless you use the slim toolholders, but the 000 is really too small for it.

You might swap/sell the larger toolpost for the smaller one.

Don't forget online selling law means you can send the 111 back and get an 000 instead.

You wouldn't be the first person to receive one and decide it's too big!

Neil

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

What, I wonder, would the return postage, to the US, be?

Edited By not done it yet on 19/01/2020 16:52:12

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by not done it yet on 19/01/2020 16:51:00:

What, I wonder, would the return postage, to the US, be?

Edited By not done it yet on 19/01/2020 16:52:12

Probably a similar amount to the Import duty, fees and VAT that you won't get back either

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I think I would have to flee bay it if I don't like the look or too big as suggested. Stupid thing is th 000 are quite a bit cheaper.

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