how to identify a indexable carbide tip

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

Hi everyone,

A few years ago I managed to pick up a number of secondhand indexable carbide tip tools/holders with at least one used carbide tip in each holder, I'm now looking to replace the old warn out tips but having difficulty working out the sizes needed, I've put the tool holder numbers in to Google to find the carbide tips have a totally different number to the holder??, one tool a (kennametal pssnr 2020k12 f2kv26) suggest the replacement to be a SMNG1204. 06 but written on the tip is wv04?, having never purchased new tips before i would greatly appreciate any help for advice please,

I've been to my local engineering firms and had a look at their tool holders and bits they have but haven't been able to identify the ones I have, I have put some pictures in my album

Many thanks again for the help

George (mid Wales)

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

how to identify a carbide indexable tip tool

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Had posted a suggestion for JB cutting tools, but on checking the website is unavailable, seems like they may have retired.

 

Dave

Edited By Dave Wootton on 15/08/2022 16:57:21

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I find the chart on page 390 & 391 of this catalogue quite easy to use, just follow along the various colours to get the code number or letter for each part of the code

Kennametal are likely to use American codes not ISO

 

JB Cutting tools are still alive and well, just need a new website

Edited By JasonB on 15/08/2022 16:58:13

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Anything printed on an insert will be the grade of carbide. Would you check the name of the inserts? SNMG1204 may be what you have, a common square shape, neutral, double sided and 12.7mm width per side and 4.76mm thick with 8 corners per insert. They are good at 45 degrees as a chamfer, but cannot face up to a square edge. The holder is 20mm square section.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Dave Wootton on 15/08/2022 16:52:29:

Had posted a suggestion for JB cutting tools, but on checking the website is unavailable, seems like they may have retired.

Dave

Edited By Dave Wootton on 15/08/2022 16:57:21

Very much still in business, but no web shop presence any more.
I gather Jenny is still doing shows, and has an eBay presence HERE
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/jennblackwel-6/m.html

Bill

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

Hi old Mart,

I've just checked the measurements on that tip, it's identical to your measurement and has the 8 cutting sides, but theirs is no name on the tip apart from the WV 04

I've put a picture of it in my album

Many thanks

George

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by George Jervis on 15/08/2022 17:59:40:

Hi old Mart,

I've just checked the measurements on that tip, it's identical to your measurement and has the 8 cutting sides, but theirs is no name on the tip apart from the WV 04

I've put a picture of it in my album

Many thanks

George

No idea about the WV, but the 04 might be the tip radius of the corner in mm.

i.e SNMG1204 specifies the size, and the last pair of digits define the radius of the corner, 04, 08, 08 etc.
See this page for the APT ones
https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/search/for/snmg1204/

Bill

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

I hope this is not a silly question, but why aren't the cutting tip identification letter and numbers put on the tool holder ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Because you can put a lot of different spec tips into the same holder eg different rake, tolerence (MT or GT)

The codes for the holders do contain a certain amount of information as to what tips they can take, Cutwel did have a good chart for that but can't find it now on their site

EDIT found the page here

Edited By JasonB on 15/08/2022 18:45:44

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I have looked at the picture and think it is VM on one side and 04 on the other. Unfortunately that is more likely to be a mould number than a grade. If you look closely at the sides of the insert, there may be a laser engraved code which would be a grade. The insert is certainly for steel, but grades for aluminium are also easily available, I have both plus stainless grade which is halfway in between.

I have had some good deals from the JB site on ebay.

Here is a link to the APT relavent page, unfortunately the SNMG12 inserts are too big to be included in their list of hobby machinist inserts which are available in smaller quantities than boxes of ten. The Cutwel page is very useful to identify various shapes and sizes of inserts.https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/carbide-inserts-for-turning-apt/page/2/

Edited By old mart on 15/08/2022 18:54:57

Edited By old mart on 15/08/2022 18:56:48

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Aren't the double sided inserts intended to have a blank under them?

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Whether a holder has a shim under the insert depends entirely on the whim of the manufacturer. The shim is to protect the holder from damage in the event of a pile up. I have holders for single and double sided inserts, some with shims and some without. Some of the high end holders, Sandvik, for instance have shims, but not universally, even for the identical insert. High end shims are usually carbide, but the cheap Chinese holders have steel shims. Shims are not identical, different clamping methods would use different shims for the same insert.

Over the years, I have bought lots of indexable tooling, and I have engraved the insert codes on the side to make it easy to select the right replacements.

Edited By old mart on 16/08/2022 20:26:28

[George JervisParticipant @georgejervis86082]

Hi everyone

Well yesterday I rang a excellent company,( not sure if the rules allow me to name them?), and with a brief description and several emails of my tool holders and tip measurements to their tech team we identify what sizes they were, I placed a small order with them to just to make sure, well today at midday they arrived and were all correct

Many thanks everyone for you help with this

George (bodgers workshop)

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