How do I remove a lathe spindle (ML1/2/3/4)

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Need to thread a belt around my pulleys and I can't say I am entirely sure how the get the spindle out. My wizard and adept all you had to do was loosen the screw in the pulley and the shaft would slide out.

Taking the screw out of the bull gear doesnt seem to loosen it and I'm not sure how to move the backgear out of the way and generally speaking I have no idea what I'm doing. Unhelpful is the fact that googling "Removing ML1 lathe spindle" comes up with only ML10.

Anyone got advice?

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Just a suggestion, if you've taken the grub screws out of the pulley and back gear – have a look down the hole to see if there's another grub screw lurking underneath, I believe it's a fairly common trick to use 2 grub screws down the same hole as a form of locking to prevent accidental loosening.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

My advice – don't remove the spindle !

Buy a link belt and there is no need – just thread it through and join the links. I put one on my Super 7 a while age and it is just fine. I bought mine from Tony ( http://www.lathes.co.uk ) but widely available.

Norman

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

The original belt on this lathe fell off when I bought it because it had become rock hard over the pulleys so I can see the advantages of a link belt but damn they are pricy. When I get a Pultra of Super 7 I might splash the cash on premium belts but for a ratty old Myford clone it seems overkill.

Also I checked and I can't see any secondary screws. The secondary purpose of getting the spindle off is also because the pulley doesn't move completly free so Im guessing there is some gunk in there that needs cleaning to let me use the back gear later.

If I take the grub screws out would it be safe to hit the rear of the spindle with a rubber mallet to push it out?

[alan-lloydParticipant @alan-lloyd]

a rubber mallet will only tiggle it, use a good sized copper mallet with a piece of ali to protect the shaft end, you don't want to mushroom it. I presume it hasn't got removeable bearing caps

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Your spindle looks as it it has a similar set up to my Southbend lathe, probably about the same vintage. No bearings, just a shaft running in cast iron. Mine did not even have a grub screw, just a key and an interference fit with the pulley and shaft. Removed mine by holding a piece of hardwood on the end of the shaft and then giving the wood a decent whack with a big hammer. One it starts to move it should come off with lighter hits.

Paul.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford-ml2-ml4/

Myford ML1, ML2, ML3 & ML4 Lathes
A "data pack" is available for the ML.1 to ML.4 lathes consisting of early and late sales catalogues together with a copy of the Instruction book and screwcutting charts

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

On a pinch-bearing lathe a spindle may be quite hard to remove

I would also consider using heat weldable poly belting or link belting

Edited By Ady1 on 26/08/2015 11:34:26

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Well I ended up hitting it with a hammer and an ash plank. Got it 3mm out very fast and now its not budging. Will see how continued hammering helps.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You could end up destroying your bearing surfaces for no gain.

Neil

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Think I would try a hot air gun on the pulleys before striking the shaft further……..

Cant you place a length of thread rod down the shaft bore and draw the shaft out against the bearing block?

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Do you ever wonder how the hell something happened because you can conceive no way that that particular part could have had any stress put apon it because I am doing that right now while crying over my broken bullgear.

 

Posted by John Rudd on 26/08/2015 15:55:23:

Think I would try a hot air gun on the pulleys before striking the shaft further……..

Cant you place a length of thread rod down the shaft bore and draw the shaft out against the bearing block?

 

Two very good ideas. 

Edited By Rainbows on 26/08/2015 16:17:52

[NJHParticipant @njh]

The link belt option begins to look cheap………….

Norman

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

A normal metre belt is £5 and a metre link belt is £40-50. Now lets see how much a bullgear costs and maybe that will make the difference. 😛

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I found this on google:

Nottingham Myford Super 7 Ml7 R Lathe Backgear Bull Gear From Myford-stuff. 44.49

So with luck you might be up by about 51p.

Neil

[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

On the other hand I don't need a backgear that much

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

If it went one way and then stuck I would look very carefully for more grub screws. There will be something that allows the back gear to work – when that's in the pulley spins freely on the spindle and the drive is through the gears so the gear on the spindle will be located on the spindle some how. There will be a grubs screw or something or the other locking the pulley to the spindle for when the back gear isn't in use.

So for instance they might key the gear to the spindle and have a slot through the pulley and it's gear (Usually one piece some how) to allow it to be part knocked out that way to allow the gear and it's key to be removed. (Remember that if you ever do get a Pulta – something has to be aligned to get the spindle out. They provide marks )

From comments elsewhere I suspect the grub screw in the pulley is just used to lock it to the spindle. The way the gear right next to the pulley and effectively part of it is attached varies but it's probably a steel sleeve to provide a bearing for when the back gear is in and the spindle runs at a different speed. Might even be bronze.

RDG do some awful cheap black link belting on ebay – even when set really tight it will slip and stretch and stretch and stretch but does sort it's self out apart from slipping but I doubt if 1/2 hp can be fed through with it.

John

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[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

Pulled a grubscrew out of the pulley and one out of the back gear. As I pushed it through I kept checking with a light at the area between the front bearing and gear to see if a key would appear but non did. I would have thought it would appear by now.

The smaller back gear gear on the spindle probably does just share a common sleeve with the pulley.

The gear didn't actually break from being stuck to the shaft as far as I can tell. It just sort of lost the will to live.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Ouch.

The small gear is fixed to the pulleys.

In normal use the small gear is locked to the spindle by the grub screw and the bull gear is disengaged using the lever.

to use back gear the pulleys are disengaged from the shaft and the gears swung into mesh… but not now.

You might get someone very skilled to either stitch that gear back together or weld it with special CI sticks.

No more hitting with hammers, you might break a bearing next.

The manual starts to look cheap.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I've taken a couple of similar lathes apart in the past but gave up on these super precision machines eventually. The taper they turned was far too precise for me. The trick was always how the back gear was fastened to the spindle which is likely to vary. One I bought from Bargain Pages had a very carefully hidden cracked casting opposite a pinch bolt.

The manual might not have enough detail in it and probably price wise doesn't reflect the actual value of the lathe. Even lathes tend to be more expensive on lathes co uk so they may be based on that. Ebay seems to be catching up fast.

I had some fun getting a super 7 pulley off for a belt. I had to get some of it glowing red hot before it would even move.

John

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[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

The goodside is that it came off in one piece with no tiny bits flying off into dark corners. Is hitting the pulley with a blowtorch till red hot advisable?

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Rainbows on 26/08/2015 20:32:03:

The goodside is that it came off in one piece with no tiny bits flying off into dark corners. Is hitting the pulley with a blowtorch till red hot advisable?

Not if it is made of aluminium . It's not a very good idea to use any pressure at all on the flanges of the pulley – they will crack. Gears too unless pressure is applied right down on the boss.

You might be able to repair that pulley by setting it up carefully in a 4 jaw and machining it to take a ring and then countersunk screw through the cast iron into the ring. The 4 jaw might allow the bits to be aligned correctly and keep them there while the machining is done.

My view is that if it takes a plumber torch to free it up after it hasn't moved for who knows how many years then there are 2 choices – forget it or do it. I wouldn't have got it off any other way and no harm done. It was a very dull red and might not even have been noticed if I hadn't been in some ones rather dark garage. Oxy Acet would probably have done it in seconds but would need more care as anyone who dismantles old cars with rusty nuts and bolts might know – it's way way better than penetrating oil and very effective. Just make the nut or bolt head glow.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 26/08/2015 20:52:37

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

That's why I did my Drummond bearings thread….

Hammers… chisels… lumps of wood… flat blade screwdrivers…. stillsons….

It's a scary world out there

The original bullgear is wrecked, and it only needed a belt

Edited By Ady1 on 27/08/2015 03:07:03

[bodgeParticipant @bodge]

The thing is you are going to have to get it apart now cos its going to be so out of balance its pretty much unusable .

Suspect the reason it wont come apart is because where the grub screws locate in indents on the spindle its thrown up a burr that would also make the bullgear & pulley stiff to turn on the spindle.If spindle hollow make a puller as someones already suggested Also worth considering Fenner T link belts will out live the standard type belt many times over ! they run smoother too .standard vee belts are a bit like m/cycle chains they get tight spots and they also hard spots. Down side of T link is they don"t grip quite as much, ( handy when you have bang.) if the bullgear is 20dp you may be able to use a change gear of the right tooth count with a bit modification, might get you out of trouble

bodge

ps dont buy the cheap T link stuff you would be hard push to get it grip well enough to sharpen a pencil !

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