Gate Progress RF45

[Andy SprouleParticipant @andysproule22368]

Hi,does anyone have one of these machines and have a manual,it looks the same machine as the Rong Fu 45?I have read on the net about people having bother removing the Mt3 tool holders but on this machine there is a slot where a drift could be used,would there be any reason not to use the drift or do people who have difficulty removing tool holders not have the slots in there machine?

[Andy SprouleParticipant @andysproule22368]

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Andy, Just noticed you're post. One of me mills is a Chester Lux which I think is the RF45. Although my spindle is ISO 30. I would think you would need to use the drift to release a morse taper toolholder [ if it fits correctly and had been drawn back firmly ] I'm not familiar with you're spindle but if the slot is for a removal drift then use it , I think it would be kinder to the spindle bearings that hitting the end of the drawbar.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

You only need to use the drift if you got carried away tightening the drawbar. With the Morse taper, you barely need to tighten it under normal circumstances, as it's pretty much self-tightening in most operations. Once you have got the hang of it, it's a simple matter of tapping the (loosened) drawbar with a plastic mallet to release the tool. If you are having to bray it and / or use the drift, you need to change your technique. It's helpful to leave the drawbar engaged (but loose) to avoid the tool landing on the table / work / cutter when it comes loose…..

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Andy,

Most mill/drills of this type have a slot for the use of a tapered drift.

However, this is for the removal of drill chuck arbours which have a tang on the end, and this is the usual way of removing these.

Collet chuck (for tool holding) arbours do not have a tang but are tapped for a threaded drawbar, essential to ensure the arbour doesn't come loose during use. These arbours are not long enough to reach the slot, so a drift cannot be used and the usual method of removal is by hitting the top end of the drawbar

. Of course if the end of the arbour does show in the slot then there is no reason why the drawbar should not be completely removed and a drift used, but this may damage the end of the thread in the arbour.

Most problems with removing collet chucks are because the drawbar has been overtightened.

PS Muzzer has answered while I was typing this!

Edited By Robbo on 17/09/2016 14:38:38

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Is it stuck ? If it is then don't wallop the drawbar use the drift. If it's a 3 jaw drill chuck , even if it's a toolholder with a threaded end try the drift. hopefully you will be able to see the end and get the drift in. Don't knock the daylights out of the Drawbar.

[Andy SprouleParticipant @andysproule22368]

I just got the machine last night it came with no manual so wanted to check how to get a drill chuck out which the guy who sold it to me had kept in it a long time.A few gentle taps with a mallet didn't remove it so I used drift successfully .So tapping the draw bar is ok and only use drift if stuck?An R8 fitting seems to be always tapped for removal are the bearing more robust with this fitting?How tight should the draw bar be?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Most problems with removing collet chucks are because the drawbar has been overtightened.

And another common problem is fitting a cold tapered tool tight into a warm machine taper.

The wedge removal should not damage a good quality morse taper with thread – the MT should be hard but tough. Also, the thread should be in a recessed pocket, so out of the way, and the outer rim of the threaded hole should be relieved so any 'spreading' will not affect the internal taper.

Tanged MTs do not grip on the tang, but do not turn in normal usage for axial thrust, but radial forces generally require a drawnbar – not so much to 'tighten' the grip, but sufficient to prevent loosening under those intermittent cutting forces and the rotating radial forces.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Andy Sproule on 17/09/2016 17:42:12:

An R8 fitting seems to be always tapped for removal are the bearing more robust with this fitting?How tight should the draw bar be?

Note that R8 and ISO30 / BT30 etc tapers don't self-tighten and consequently don't require much force if any to remove. Loosen the drawbar and they basically fall out. It's only really Morse tapers that require help.

You'll soon find if the drawbar isn't tight enough, as the toolholder will slip. As pointed out, you don't have a tang when there is a drawbar. However, in most cases there is enough axial load to cause self-tightening.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

There is a thread on here about a mod to this general style of mill to allow pushing out the tooling without hammering on the drawbar. See : **LINK**

John

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There have been some other threads, not machine specific, about taper removal if you search around.

If using a wedge note the slot has rounded ends. The wedge should be hard steel and have a rounded side at the top so neither it nor the spindle gets burred over causing new problems.

If part of the spindle is exposed at the bottom over the taper but inside the bearing you might be able to assist things by friction heating this by holding a couple of pieces of wood around it as it revolves.
Wedges are available to lever between the end of the spindle (not quill) and the top of the tool. With drill chucks this may pop off the chuck but that will help access to the spindle for the option below. If you don't have wedges open ended spanners and ingenuity suffice.
If resorting to heavy bashing of the drawbar to avoid strain on the bearing arrange bits of metal to take the thrust down to the table.

[Andy SprouleParticipant @andysproule22368]

Does anyone have one of these machines and has a manual?

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The wedge I use on my Rexon mill to remove the drill chuck with it's 3 MT taper is made of a bit of 3/8" thick hot rolled steel, after 20 or so years there is no bruising on it, a hardened wedge is not needed.

Ian S C

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Andy Sproule on 18/09/2016 20:55:23:

Does anyone have one of these machines and has a manual?

I know I scanned the manual for my Taiwanese-made Sealey mill drill which is presumably almost identical. Naturally I can find no trace of it, now that I look for it. However, Grizzly has a massive collection of manuals on their website. If you can trawl through the "mill drill" manuals you will most likely find something suitable.

Murray

Perhaps G0705? Looks RF45 to me….

Edited By Muzzer on 19/09/2016 11:00:53

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by not done it yet on 17/09/2016 22:01:22:

…

And another common problem is fitting a cold tapered tool tight into a warm machine taper.

…

Ah, thank you. Another mystery solved! I think this happened to me yesterday after fitting a cold fly-cutter into a warm milling machine.

Dave

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Andy look at your inbox.

Martin

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

My machine is a RF25, for which I made an "extractorr" for tooling held in the 3MT spindle by the drawbar.

The nut holding the pulley to the spindle has a left hand thread. Remove and turn down the underside, to a suitable diameter, for just over the thickness of the plate mentioned below (not more than half the thickness of the nut) .

Take a piece of 1/4" or 6mm plate and bore out to just fit over the recently turned diameter on the nut.

Tap two holes, equally spaced about the centreline, Now, M6 would be the preferred, instead of my 1/4 BSF.

Place the plate on the diameter of the nut, refit it to the spindle, and tighten the nut.

Take another piece of plate, the same size as the first, and drill two holes, clearance for the thread chosen for the now captive plate, on the same centres.

Tap a hole in the centre of this plate, (I used 1/4 BSF). M6 would be more applicable nowadays.

Take / make two suitable long setscrews (I used 1/4 BSF studding with knurled "nuts" Loctited into place) and drop through the clearance holes. To keep the setscrews captive, a nut can be screwed on, under the plate.

Screw a suitable setscrew into the central tapping, to act as a forcing screw.

Slacken the drawbar by half to one turn..

Place the plate over the drawbar, and hand tighten the setscrews, equally, into the tappings in the captive plate.

Tighten the central forcing screw.

The Morse taper should now free. If it doesn't free off, a light tap on the head of the forcing screw should do the trick, avoiding the need to belabour the spindle bearings.

Remove the "extractor", and put away ready for next time.

Unscrew drawbar and remove tooling from the spindle.

Hope that this helps.

Howard

[Andy SprouleParticipant @andysproule22368]

Thanks again,great way to remove taper Howard.

[Author]

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