First lathe – warco 180/210

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

Hello,

i’ve been looking at buying a lathe for some time now but life got in the way and the purchase was delayed.

I am now looking again at the different options that would suit my needs :

– this would be my first lathe, no prior experience with a lathe

– to start experimenting and see if I like the hobby

– interested in clock making (for the long term)

 

I was thinking about a smallish lathe such as the warco 180 or 210, as the first projects will be mostly focused on doing small workshop tools. I think that will keep me busy for a bit of time. If i want to move on to clock making, i will then look at a watchmaker lathe, but that’s not gonna happen before some time.

 

looking at the warco 180/210, i was wondering how important these points are for a lathe :

– no reverse on the motor (thus not possible to cut left hand thread)

– motor is only 550 w. Is that enough to machine steel ? (the lathe will be used at the beginning with a milling attachment)

– the lathe is only 60 kg, which makes it easier to handle. However, does that impact the overall rigidity ?

– lack of feed (longitudinal / cross)

 

Any comments are welcome !

Chris

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Hi Chris,

The motor is reversible, but there is no tumbler gear so you can’t cut left hand threads, though people have modified these with tumbler reverse (or, much better, fitted an electronic leadscrew set up, which is what I’ve done with mine).

The 180 will easily cut steel, not as fast as a bigger machine, but within the size limitations of the machine it’s fine.

I’ve found it rigid enough, though the lack of a really low geared/belt speed can make large diameter work more challenging.

There is longitudinal feed via the leadscrew; on such a small machine, I would say the lack of power cross feed isn’t too important.

The 210 appears to be a long bed version of the 180, if you’ve got the space and can run to the (quite modest) extra cost, I’d go for the 210. I have a 180 because of lack of space (and anyway, the 210 wasn’t available when I bought it), and I haven’t really needed the extra length, but it would make life a bit more convenient having more room to thread bars into the chuck, etc.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I started with a lathe similar to a 180 and it served me well – learned all the basics from it.

Don’t expect much joy milling on one though.  Though possible it’s frustrating.  Shallow cuts because lathes lack rigidity when milling, especially small light ones.  Worse though is lack of space on a lathe – you can only mill small objects, workholding is fiddly and there’s very little travel. A 180 might be acceptable for clockmaking size work in Brass, not good for larger lumps of steel. If you can afford one and have the space, a milling machine is infinitely better.  Or if milling must be done on a lathe, then bigger is better.

I upgraded to a WM280 because I needed a bigger machine:  going up is more common than going down because big lathes can do small work, whilst small lathes can’t do big.   The main reason fo downsizing upsizing is clocks, where small is beautiful, and a WM180 sized lathe feels a bit clumsy.

Left hand threads are rare in my experience.  Also, most small threads, say M8 and under, are cut with taps and dies, not turned,

Dave

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What Andy says

I started with an even smaller Unimat 3 and made a Stuart 10V on that so it handles steel and iron OK including milling. I’ll now be shot down but I held the milling cutters in the 3-jaw chuck and have an engine that runs well. Your 180 is really just a mini-lathe of 7 x $ size and a lot of people have done a lot of work on those.

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

Thanks all for your feedbacks, much appreciated !

I dont have much expectations when it comes to milling, and plan to get a milling machine fairly quickly. That’s part of the reason I want to keep the lathe price within limits.

I didnt know the 180/210 had a longitudinal feed, that’s a good point.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Find a local model Engineering Club, and join. You will net like minded folk who will help you.

As a newbie, my advice is to buy one or more books on lathe operation,

Such as Stan Bray, “Basic Lathework” (No 45 in the Workshop Practice Series)

Harold Hall, ” Lathework, A Complete Course” ( (No 34 in the W P S)

Neil Wyatt, David Clark and David Fenner (The Mini Lathe W P S 43) have each written books on the mini lathe

You will certainly need a set of Zeus Charts

One of the techniques to learn, is how to rotate a handwheel, slowly and steadily, to provide a steady feed.

If the lathe has change wheels, these can be arranged for the leadscrew to provide a fine feed for turning, but for facing, you will need to provide the fine feed.

On a mini lathe, a lot of thread cutting can be done using Taps and Dies (Get some lubricant, such as Roco; RTD or Trefolex). The Zeus carts will tell you what size to drill the hole for tapping. When cutting an external thread, put a chamfer on the end of the work to help lead in the Die.

Back off every half turn to break the swarf. An remember that taps don’t bend, they break!  And that will mean a scrap job!

A mini lathe with only a 500 W or so motor is not powerful, so don’t expect to be taking deep cuts.

The operator manual for the Sieg C2 and C3 mini lathes, says that 0.010″ ( 0,25 mm) is a roughing cut, although with care this can be exceeded)

The same manual, instructs that the lathe should always be started and shut down with the speed control in the Zero position. The current surge on start up can damage the control board!

Milling is a series of interrupted cuts, and demands rigidity, so if you go down this route, presumably with a vertical slide, do not be ambitious. Do NOT climb mill!  Always have the work moving towards the cutter, never in the same direction.

Tooling.

You can use replaceable Carbide tips, but for some jobs High Speed Steel will be needed, so to grind HSS, you will need a bench grinder, and to learn how to grind HSS tools. (Harold Hall has written a book on Tool and Cutter Sharpening – No 38 in W P S)

Clearance angles , generally, do not need to be too precise, probably anywhere between 5 and 10 degrees will suffice. Excessive clearance angle will weaken the cutting edge and shorten tool life.

If you do decide to use carbide, tips, buy some spares, (You will need a replacement at 8 pm on a Saturday night!)

It would be worth, and a useful learning project, to make a Centre Height Gauge.

A tool that is off centre will not cut properly, and will leave a pip when facing the end of a workpiece.

Learn, gain experience and confidence, on bits of mild steel, rather than on expensive material such as castings from kits.

Probably the easiest for a newbie would be to buy a 0 – 6″ (0-150 mm) digital calliper (And spare batteries)

Either a cheapie from ALDI or LIDL, when they come into stock,  or for about twice as much, from Arc Euro, or a Moore and Wright from Machine DRO

Later, you will need at least one “clock” Dial test Indicator) and a Magnetic base

A Plunger clock will usually be graduated on 0.001″ intervals, a finger clock in 0.005″, or the metric equivalents

A three jaw chuck will not hold work absolutely concentric, a good one will be withing 0.003″ (0.025 mm)

If you need two or more diameters to be concentric, turn them in succession without disturbing anything.

Otherwise, you will need a four jaw independent chuck, and use the DTI to set the work concentric (or as eccentic as you need- if you need it to be eccentric)

You will make mistakes, but learn from them (Not disastrous ones we hope)

HTH all this will be of help

Howard

 

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

“210” is the swing in mm which is the way a lot of new lathes are numbered nowadays. This is big enough for a 7 1/4 in loco let alone clockmaking.
A mini lathe would be enough for clocks but an old lathe like Zyto, Drummond, etc in good condition would be 1/5 the price of the 210.
Where is your workshop? Start by building a well insulated airtight shed before the machines get in the way. Then you will be able to work all year round in comfort and the dehumidifier you get will stop your tools going rusty. A cold shed you can’t use will waste the money you spent on tools.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Couldn’t agree more with Bazyle, a workshop that cant be used for 1/2 a year is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Since you will have power available for the machine and lights, you can heat it, even if it is well insulated (It needs to be)

When it gets cold, you can switch on a low power tubular heater. Even 60 or 80 watts will make a difference in a well insulated, small shop, and keep the rust fairy at bay.

In a well insulated small shop, a 2 Kw fan heater can bring it up to a reasonable working temperature in less than 15 minutes. And your presence and the machines running will add to the heating.

You will need a little ventilation. You will emit some moisture while you are there, so you need a small vent at floor level to let out the damp air, and a equally small high level vent to admit air to replace it.

In East Anglia, my small (7′ x 11′ external, with all round 50 mm glass fibre insulation), shop has an ex equipment 6″ fan near the ceiling, and a couple of 1″ vents at floor level, and a 2 Kw fan heater soon brings up the temperature.

HTH

Howard

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

Thanks Howard for this very detailed answer ! Actually I have been looking at getting a lathe since nearly 2 years, but between work and a baby, it didnt happen. Though I had a lot of time to read books and watch videos !

 

I placed today an order for a Chester DB8VS (similar to Warco 210) 🙂

 

Now ordering bits and bobs to get started (though the lathe comes with some accessories)

 

Howard, you mention the following in your answer : If the lathe has change wheels, these can be arranged for the leadscrew to provide a fine feed for turning, but for facing, you will need to provide the fine feed.

Am I right to assume this is using the half-nut for the longitudinal feed ? I thought the half-nut was to be used only for threading, as it would otherwise prematurely wear it.

(the DB8vs doesnt have a keyway in the leadscrew. So feed is either manual or via the half-nut)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Larger lathes have a separate feed shaft, smaller hobby lathes tend to use the leadscrew for both. Yes you will get more wear but the actual amount would be so small it is really not worth worrying about and unlikely to happen quickly. Look at the Myfords still going after 60yrs and few need new screws or nuts.

[Chris12Participant @chris12]

Thanks !

Buying the basic tools needed for the beginning, as well as some metal. I understand why it is said to not put all your money in the lathe itself but keep some for the accessories….

[Chris12]

On Chris12 Said:

Thanks !

Buying the basic tools needed for the beginning, as well as some metal. I understand why it is said to not put all your money in the lathe itself but keep some for the accessories….

Bear in mind that the work you do will decide which accessories you need, not what some random expert on the internet claims is essential.

[Author]

Posts