Fake Mitutoyo indicator on Ebay

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 25/04/2020 08:07:19:

Posted by Steviegtr on 25/04/2020 00:25:38:

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Posted by Barrie Lever on 23/04/2020 10:32:36:

So my question to forum members is should I crush it or give it to SOD Dave?

Yes.

Steve.

.

Ah … the joys and perils of Punctuation, and of Boolean Algebra

MichaelG.

Ask the right question and you may get the right answer.🙂

Seems neither of those options were actually chosen, in the end.

[Steamer1915Participant @steamer1915]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 23/04/2020 10:32:36:

I checked the indicator on my granite table with tungsten slip gauges (all bought off of Ebay and absolutely superb quality) going from 20mm slips to 20.1 I could already see errors, probably OK for someone like SOD Dave as an exponent of near enough is good enough but the indicator is not staying in my workshop.

What sort of errors were you seeing? Were they cosine errors that you would see when using the stylus at angle? A pear shaped stylus would reduce these errors.

Link

Steve.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I bought this one complete about 6 months ago for £17.50 and for the money I really cant fault it.The holder works a treat and the dial mechanism is smooth and repeatable, it always returns to exactly the same position which is a good sign. I have checked it against my more expensive dial gauge and it is good throughout its range though I seldom use it for measurement but I have on a few occasions. I mainly use it for centering and setting up the 4 jaw as the easy positioning of the arms and single point locking make it quick to set up.

Got it off Ebay and it wasnt offered under any brand name and all it has on the dial is Jewelled and Made in China.

Maybe I have just been lucky but certainly good value for money.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ron Laden on 25/04/2020 09:33:23:

I bought this one complete about 6 months ago for £17.50 and for the money I really cant fault it.

[…]

it wasnt offered under any brand name and all it has on the dial is Jewelled and Made in China.

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That’s how it should be, Ron

Honestly described, modestly priced, and meets the buyer's expectation.

The world would be a better place if everyone did their selling that way.

MichaelG.

[vintage engineerParticipant @vintageengineer]

If it's too cheap, there is normally reason!

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Ron Laden on 25/04/2020 09:33:23:

…

Got it off Ebay and it wasnt offered under any brand name and all it has on the dial is Jewelled and Made in China.

…

No, it's got Mitutoyo's Item Code 513-404 as well…

But If it does what you want, it's a fine bargain.

I'm with SOD on this. I've got a 30-year-old Baty badged finger DTI that was damaged from new – that's how I got it, or it'd've gone in the bin. But I know what it does, can circumvent such faults as it has automatically, and can depend on it for my purposes – so I'd have no reason to replace it. It may be junk but it's my junk.

Maybe that's the decision the OP made – when it wasn't what it was advertised to be, he decided not to own it. That's fine, but not everyone would've thought that way.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Well spotted Mick, I didnt think of the Mitutoyo item code but at least its honest in it says made in China and doesnt have a look alike makers name (Mitetoyo) plus it wasnt advertised as a Mitutoyo.

It is a bargain at £17.50, it works fine and I found my comparison figures in my notebook from when I compared it to my dial gauge, on a couple of measurements it differed by two tenths of a thou, I dont think I will be losing any sleep over that for what I use it for.

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 25/04/2020 13:13:25

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Mick B1 on 25/04/2020 11:56:41:

[…]

No, it's got Mitutoyo's Item Code 513-404 as well…

 

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I’m not sure, but I don’t think that using the same numeric code would count, in Law, as “passing off”

… Consider the trouble that would cause in [for example] the electronic components supply chain.

Using a box that is clearly marked Mitutoyo [see Barrie’s example] is a very different matter though.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/04/2020 14:10:40

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 23/04/2020 10:32:36:

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

< deleted duplicate post >

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/04/2020 14:11:25

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Ron Laden on 25/04/2020 13:11:14:

Well spotted Mick, I didnt think of the Mitutoyo item code but at least its honest in it says made in China and doesnt have a look alike makers name (Mitetoyo) plus it wasnt advertised as a Mitutoyo.

…

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 25/04/2020 13:13:25

It's even possible that the dial printing missed a process and the thing was rejected by Mitutoyo simply because it didn't have their logo on it, then sold on into whatever supply chain ultimately retailed it through the Bay.

Anybody's guess who actually made it. I know back in the 80s Baty made their own plunger dial indicators, but finger types were purchased in with the Baty logo from Girod in Switzerland. I think these days that – at very best – a brand name might sometimes just represent a set of inspection standards, and on small goods even those will only be applied to a statistical sample.

Edited By Mick B1 on 25/04/2020 14:33:59

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 25/04/2020 14:59:46:

You Could Not Make This Up

I now have the seller saying that he will pay me £10 to take the negative feedback off of Ebay, he says his boss will sack him if the negative feedback stays !!!!

.

That reinforces my belief that you should report this direct to Mitutoyo, Barrie

MichaelG.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

When the auctions were running I noticed quite a number of genuine empty boxes + packaging designed to hold expensive watches go for considerable money considering they were just fancy cardboard etc – the strong suspicion is that they are intended to deceive ebay buyers

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 25/04/2020 14:59:46:…

The whole thing is like something out of a comic book.

B.

Sure is a crazy world, almost everything is cock-eyed.

If I recall correctly Matsui TVs were so named because consumers trusted Japanese electronics more than western makes. They were made in South Wales.

A supermarket near you might be selling 'Woodside Farms' produce, or similar cosy name. There are no such farms.

Most Brands and Companies are owned by multinationals we've never heard of, often based in unlikely places like Vanuatu.

Bats aren't blind. French Letters, Welsh Rarebit, Dutch Courage and Swedes are all English. Kilts and Tartans aren't originally Scots. No Ploughman ever ate a Ploughman's Lunch. Hobnobs aren't a traditional biscuit (1985). My vacuum cleaner isn't a Hoover. Most money doesn't exist. James Watt didn't invent the Steam Engine, Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the telephone, and Edison didn't invent the light bulb.

At the atomic scale Shrodingers Cat is simultaneously alive and dead. At astronomical scale, clocks really do slow down at high speeds.

As what we see with our own eyes is processed between 0.15 and 0.5 seconds after the reality it's a wonder anything is trusted at all!

Dave

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 25/04/2020 15:16:15:

…

…

It is crazy to suggest that Mitutoyo would risk their reputation by having parts or assemblies made by sub standard contractors

…

The indicator is well made but no Mitutoyo that I can guarantee you.

B.

How much reputational risk is there? In your example, nobody tried to pass it off as Mitutoyo's product.

If the clock was made by a subbie, the omission spotted by their QA and rejected, how would anybody at Mitutoyo ever find out if the individual product or small batch was sold on informally through a supply chain that led to the Bay? They'd have to read these forums to notice the proprietary Item Code, and even then they could only suspect.

Of course, if you can distinguish its quality from a kosher Mitutoyo product, that's clear enough.

From other threads, I think we know clearly enough the Moore and Wright tools on sale now ain't crafted by nobody in Sheffield.

Edited By Mick B1 on 25/04/2020 17:01:58

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Is there any Chinese address given on the outer packaging, Barrie, or any indication of an address in emails/Ebay messages you've received?

I'd be interested to know whether the seller is Hong Kong-based or on the mainland. The quality of his English suggests the first.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Is it really worth the hassle?

Mitutoyo will not be interested, most companies just can not spare the manpower to chase these knockoffs.

Jim

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I believe that Moore & Wright started their micrometer manufacturing business with copies, (knock-offs!!) of a Swiss design.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Barrie,

I think we've been at cross purposes. At 14:33 I was commenting on Ron's unnamed dial gauge, not the deliberate fake you have. It was Ron's gauge that I thought might have been rejected for despatch to Mitutoyo and sold on by an unknown subbie.

I wish I'd kept the 1960s Indonesian whiskey bottle that carried the label 'Made In Scottland'…

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 25/04/2020 14:59:46:

Hi, my friend:

I'm really sorry for my mistake to make you unhappy.

I'm working on ebay platform as a newbie, graduated this year. My boss has punished me. I have made several telephone calls to you to apologize but receive no responses. I'm willing to make further compensation no more than 10 pounds for keeping my job. Please do me a favor to help, otherwise my boss will fire me.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind Regards

PS: Anytime you visit to my store, you will be regarded as VIP

I think he might tell me the fishy workings of these Chinese Ebay traders before this has run it's course.

The whole thing is like something out of a comic book.

B.

Edited By Barrie Lever on 25/04/2020 15:01:31

I wouldn't let it worry your conscience, he'll probably end up telling you his boss has his grandmother and pet cat suspended over an alligator pool in a cage until you remove the feedback.

They will try anything to get bad feedback removed.

Neil

[Enough!Participant @enough]

I'd thought that eBay had changed the rules on feedback a while ago to the effect that feedback couldn't be subsequently changed.

Not true?

[Author]

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