EV Charging Hacks …

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I suppose it was inevitable : **LINK**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58011014

MichaelG.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I'm assuming this is for home chargers, not public ones.

I can't help thinking the most secure option is a wired-in cable and connector only outside, with the charger on a simple time-switch, full-charge sensor and manually re-settable NVR; all electrically shielded and inside the house. The trip is to prevent unauthorised swapping of car or cable; and to protect the equipment from open-circuit faults or indeed theft.

No "computers",. no "smart"-phones, "wi-fiddlesticks", fruit-pies, or anything like that!

It is a battery-charger, albeit a high-voltage, high-current one, for goodness' sake!

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Exactly! Why does everything seemingly have to be connected to the internet? In this application, is it a way of the manufacturer, or others, gathering information stored in the car's computer?

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

My understanding of the reason behind internet connectivity for car chargers allows for the potentials of influencing when people charge by time-variant costings and remote diagnosis of charger issues since a 'safe' charger should negotiate with the car before providing power. Leccy regs re proper car chargers are slightly more complicated than just providing a commando socket although most EV’s can indeed accept a charge from same.

The same applies to smart meters.

My opinion of all this internet connectivity is that inevitably it allows bad actors to wreak havoc and in many cases is just another sales drive of stuff that is unnecessary and lazy – so called smart homes where you don't even have to reach for a remote to change the TV channel or switch the lights off while allowing systems more statistic gathering and manipulation.

pgk

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Just another example of how vulnerable society will become in the future. We will be completely reliant on electrickery. Either a natural disaster or an act of aggression could completely disable the country. Covid has driven us closer to a cashless society but no leccy and no interweb equals no money! No good going to the local bank, they will have no clue how much you had in your account with central records down and they won't have a pile of notes in the cupboard. That supposes there is a bank you can reach on foot without your EV with its flat battery. Shops will be empty, most likely looted because without power they won't be able to sell stuff and most orders and supply chains are electronic anyway so restocking will be out, especially if delivery trucks are electric too. Where will you get your news as to what is happening? Water won't come out of the tap, cooking will be difficult for most. Will military vehicles be electric too? The future is indeed bright.

Paul.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Actually if the designers of these chargers had paid basic attention to security there would not be the problem. Security should be designed in and regulated just as electrical safety and product liability should apply. This is the direction we are moving in. **LINK**

Using a Raspberry Pi as the processor in a critical IoT device is NOT a good idea.

I guess if model engineering had existed as the horseless carriage was being invented we would see the same negativity that's displayed here – given that engineers are the people that drive innovation what does that tell us?

[VicParticipant @vic]

I saw something about smart meter use in the USA a while back. You can get a discount from the energy supplier if you allow them to remotely turn off certain items during high usage periods. I knew there was a reason for the push for smart meters. Eventually everyone will have them and non essential devices may be turned off as needed by energy suppliers. EV’s of course have the potential not only to store energy for its own use but also to put it back into the grid if it’s needed. All fine if it works as intended and there is enough investment in energy production and supply. I would expect “teething” troubles though. I don’t expect many of us on here will be around to see it though so nothing to worry about unless you just like moaning about new technology.

EV Storage Trial

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Electric military vehicles?

A picture of one being tested was published in a newspaper recently.

Presumably this seen as the way to go?

Go west perhaps perhaps?.

In a "boots on ground" battle, a flat battery won't allow much of an advance, or a safe retreat.

Presumably solve by having a diesel powered genset to recharge in the middle of the desert.

THAT sounds like a reduced overall system fuel efficiency to me!

Energy from fuel:, engine efficiency, generator efficiency, battery charging efficiency, battery delivery efficiency, motor and drive train efficiency. With every stage being less that 100% efficient, so that very little of the fuel energy actually appears at the wheels of the vehicle.

And more mechanisms to fail or be damaged by enemy action or the environment.

In the Iraq war, the problem was keeping the gas turbine powered Abrams tank supplied with fuel. The Rolls-Royce CV12 powered British tanks had much less of a problem with range, and the need for fuel supply..

When did an electromagnetic pulse knock out a mechanical linkage? The heat pulse might, but who would survive that if not in a deep bunker.l

A fully paid up sceptic!

Howard

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 01/08/2021 11:22:33:

Just another example of how vulnerable society will become in the future. We will be completely reliant on electrickery.

Paul.

Bad news Paul, we are completely reliant on electrickery and have been for at least 30 years… But compared with Global Warming our dependence on electrickery is a trivial risk.

Arguably, society has been reliant on manufactured items since about 1890. Those American 'Mountain Man' TV programmes always make me laugh. Extolling the virtues of living off-grid in cabins fitted with sheet metal roofing, double-glazing, cast-iron wood burners, protected by factory made guns and cartridges, whilst whizzing around in a petrol filled snow-mobile (or light aircraft), with a generator handy for the power tools. If the end comes, they will last a month or two longer than the rest of us. Mind you, there's much to be said for having no neighbours within 20 miles.

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2021 09:38:25:

Posted by Paul Kemp on 01/08/2021 11:22:33:

Just another example of how vulnerable society will become in the future. We will be completely reliant on electrickery.

Paul.

Bad news Paul, we are completely reliant on electrickery and have been for at least 30 years… But compared with Global Warming our dependence on electrickery is a trivial risk.

[…]

.

and there is more inter-relation than might at first appear.

This story from today’s News is well worth reading : **LINK**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58012290

MichaelG.

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Hotter and drier weather will have a greater impact on hydropower generation, which has already led to severe power disruptions this summer in Iran.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/08/2021 10:00:24

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2021 09:38:25:

Posted by Paul Kemp on 01/08/2021 11:22:33:

Just another example of how vulnerable society will become in the future. We will be completely reliant on electrickery.

Paul.

Bad news Paul, we are completely reliant on electrickery and have been for at least 30 years… But compared with Global Warming our dependence on electrickery is a trivial risk.

Arguably, society has been reliant on manufactured items since about 1890. Those American 'Mountain Man' TV programmes always make me laugh. Extolling the virtues of living off-grid in cabins fitted with sheet metal roofing, double-glazing, cast-iron wood burners, protected by factory made guns and cartridges, whilst whizzing around in a petrol filled snow-mobile (or light aircraft), with a generator handy for the power tools. If the end comes, they will last a month or two longer than the rest of us. Mind you, there's much to be said for having no neighbours within 20 miles.

Dave

Dave,

Glad you see it as a trivial risk. I see it more as a serious risk in terms of a single point of failure. Agreed already there are areas of daily life completely dependent on electricity and computing such as finance, already you won't have access to money you own if the lights are out. Then even if you have cash and the lights are out there are few retailers geared up to operate without EPOS. In fact this is nothing more than a minor irritation in the short term. Consider a slightly longer term however, say a serious interruption of a week. There are not many people that would accept or cope with that. That would be more than a minor irritation to me even if it were localised and I could drive out of the area to buy food. Which if I had an EV as well I probably couldn't do more than once depending on the distance. I am not a survivalist or American mountain man but I do have a generator in the shed that will run the freezer, keep a few lights on and power the boiler (gas) so in the short term there are options.

Not sure where manufactured goods come into the argument outside of processed food? I don't know of many people who would not survive the non availability of purchasing the latest phone, a new washer drier etc etc. Yes society seems wholly reliant on manufacturing and yes most if not all of that is powered by electrickery but is it vital – unless it's food, probably not.

My point is by going completely electric and extending the connectivity of appliances to be reliant on Internet connectivity or signals from our smart meters we are more vulnerable. I can remember the power strikes, back then they were a pain but we had gas to cook and coal / wood for heat and candles / oil for light and it wasn't the end of the world. Up to five years ago I spent the previous ten years of my working life in the Carribean where power outages were a regular daily occurance from a few minutes to several hours. The water was off more than it was on, same with interweb. Why would I want to return to that? Alarmist, maybe but in my business nothing is allowed to have a single point of failure and that is where we are headed.

As to being against technology I am all for it when applied in a robust and reliable manner and have spent the last 2 years trying to drive the design of a green project working with some large entities and most of the technology is very immature and far from robust. The most recent green project has only been operational for 60% of the time and that is a system from a global player of some reputation. So I have good reason for skepticism.

Paul.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 02/08/2021 22:07:03:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 02/08/2021 09:38:25:

Posted by Paul Kemp on 01/08/2021 11:22:33:

Just another example of how vulnerable society will become in the future. We will be completely reliant on electrickery.

Paul.

Bad news Paul, we are completely reliant on electrickery and have been for at least 30 years… But compared with Global Warming our dependence on electrickery is a trivial risk.

Arguably, society has been reliant on manufactured items since about 1890. Those American 'Mountain Man' TV programmes always make me laugh. Extolling the virtues of living off-grid in cabins fitted with sheet metal roofing, double-glazing, cast-iron wood burners, protected by factory made guns and cartridges, whilst whizzing around in a petrol filled snow-mobile (or light aircraft), with a generator handy for the power tools. If the end comes, they will last a month or two longer than the rest of us. Mind you, there's much to be said for having no neighbours within 20 miles.

Dave

Dave,

Glad you see it as a trivial risk. …

Paul.

Not quite what I meant: I said it's a trivial risk compared with Global Warming. Strikes me as odd that some get excited about an edge case like a plug-in Raspberry Pico in a smart meter, whilst dismissing a major issue like Climate Change entirely!

Computer security is a major problem. Software engineers and their patrons are as misinformed, lazy, unimaginative, and strapped for money and time as anyone else! And their products are handed over to salesmen and customers, who add profit, ignorance and parsimony to the mix. We're doomed…

Dave

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I was un-surprised to see this Lithium shortage

Anyone with a brain could see this coming a long time ago.

Martin C

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Like it or not (Not) , electricity is going to be forced upon us as the only 'energy' source to use.

How it will be produced , is completely beyond the comprehension of those making the decisions.

The future will be 'interesting' , to say the least.

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Just to set the record straight, What we have been led to believe about EV chargers. There is NO charging circuitry in them at all. All the charging is done in the car (EV) itself. The 'BOX' has some minor electronics that talks to the charger in the car, may provide wifi access so that an APP can be used to monitor the charging process. It is this 'NEED' for an APP to do everything these days that adds to the security flaws. The bean counters won't allow the extra to provide simple WIFI security.

As has been said on here before EV's are NOT the solution to greenhouse gasses, you only have to look at the logistics – How much electricity would be needed if all petrol/deisel cars were replaced with EV's, how do yoiu charge an EV if you live in a terraced house, who is going to provide the infrastructure and at what cost?

Governments have not thought this through at all, it is just an attempt to show how 'GREEN' they are.

Anyone foolish enough to think they are saving the planet by having an EV, think again.

There will ultimately be a viable solution but WE will still have to pay, goverments cannot afford to lose the tax revenues whether we all have our own transport or use public transport.

EV's are NOT the solution………

[VicParticipant @vic]

EV’s may or may not be a long term answer. From what I’ve read recently though I think they might. Given the number of peoples lives cut short by Diesel fumes though and the finite supplies of crude oil we need to get them off the roads as soon as possible.
I read some time back that you can only truly be classed as intelligent if you have empathy and imagination as well. Clearly quite a few on here don’t have any empathy or imagination given the ridiculous comments they make about EV’s.

EV Myths

Cost, range, lack of infrastructure etc were all problems for Petrol cars that took far longer to address than EV’s are likely to take but they still caught on.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Vic on 03/08/2021 11:30:15:

Cost, range, lack of infrastructure etc were all problems for Petrol cars that took far longer to address than EV’s are likely to take but they still caught on.

The thing that improved petrol cars beyond EVs happened just over a hundred years ago. In 1910, there was nothing much to choose between an IC and an electric car: they were both crap.

in 1920, electric cars were still just as bad but petrol engines had improved by a massive amount. It was the military requirements of WW1 that caused such rapid development, and WW2 had a similar affect on aircraft. Having WW3 on the slight possibility of similar improvements is unlikely to be a popular idea….

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

This morning, the house next door suffered a short in the cable under the drive. UK Power arrived and killed the power to a whole row of houses. Only for about 15 minutes, but it a lot longer to rest all the gadgets (Router included ) powered the electricity when it returns.

Looking down the hole, it looks mas if the faulty cable has been cut, but not repaired, so we are due for the nuisance all over again, with warning we would hope, Then we shall have an encore of resetting everything!

The "brave new world" that we have been promised will come, but not as soon as our masters have promised, in all probability.

Howard

[VicParticipant @vic]

I can’t quite get the link between a government ban on the sales of New ICE Cars in 2030 and comments about military vehicles? I would have though the military would be keen to continue using Diesel, Petrol and Avgas?

This makes interesting reading. I knew 60% of motorists have their own drive. It’s a shame so many folks can’t understand the concept of destination charging.

No Driveway

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

It was surprise to see a photo of the military testing an electric troop carrier.

Currently, a diesel powered machine would very likely have a greater range.

A you say, you would have thought that the military would have continue with well proven technology.

In WW1 they still thought the tank would never replace the horse!

Howard

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 03/08/2021 20:20:12:

It was surprise to see a photo of the military testing an electric troop carrier.

[…]

.

Perhaps they have “seen the future” and realised that locally-produced electricity [from solar, wind, or nuclear] would simplify the fuel supply chain.

MichaelG.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Posted by Vic on 03/08/2021 20:03:41:

I can’t quite get the link between a government ban on the sales of New ICE Cars in 2030 and comments about military vehicles? I would have though the military would be keen to continue using Diesel, Petrol and Avgas?

This makes interesting reading. I knew 60% of motorists have their own drive. It’s a shame so many folks can’t understand the concept of destination charging.

No Driveway

Vic,

Are you sure there is no bias in your link? I mean it is not as if they have anything to gain being a commercial organisation – I didn't see any reference to charitable status or not for profit entity? It doesn't say 60% of people have drives either – it actually says they have access to off street parking. There is a world of difference! Yes there are many people that do have access to off street parking but consider estates where that parking is remote from your house. A man I know has a wife that is a community midwife and the NHS has decreed she must be issued with an EV. He has off street parking – in the car park attached to the estate (which has no chargers) and is 100m from his house. How does she charge her car? She has no office or base, all she does it make house calls. What is she supposed to do when arriving at the patients house – ask if they would mind dreadfully if she plugs her car into one of their 3 pin sockets while she does her business?

The gent writing the article stated he parks his car at the railway station overnight to charge and enjoys the walk home and back in the morning. All fine and dandy when the sun shines but in the middle of winter? All I can say is he is very lucky, it costs around £8 to park for 12 hrs at our local station and it only has around 100 spaces……

Never mind my bags of empathy, apply some critical thinking to your references and use your empathy to understand the problems this will bring to many. TfL provides some very reasonably priced public transport in the city but do you think the passengers only pay? Just look at the millions that went into the Mayors cap last year to prop it up! Exactly the reason he wants to implement the charge for anyone without a resident postcode within the M25 to pay around £5 a day to drive inside it – the revenue to prop up TfL. That scheme has gone quiet at the moment but I am sure he will resurrect it as soon as he can. Like others on here I would like to think my children and grandchildren will have the freedom of movement I have enjoyed but somehow I doubt it. It's not as easy as the flag waving representatives of us all will have you believe. Green is not just a technology choice it's will be a complete lifestyle and cultural change and despite all the claims of cheap or free energy – nothing comes for free and it certainly won't be cheap. Just understand what you are wishing for. To properly address emissions is going to take a whole lot more than fixing transport.

Paul.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/08/2021 20:40:29:

Posted by Howard Lewis on 03/08/2021 20:20:12:

It was surprise to see a photo of the military testing an electric troop carrier.

[…]

.

Perhaps they have “seen the future” and realised that locally-produced electricity [from solar, wind, or nuclear] would simplify the fuel supply chain.

MichaelG.

Advance to the front line corporal Jones! Hold on Captain Mainwearing I need to charge the van first

I somehow doubt that future conflicts will rely on tanks and troop carriers anyway so we are we are not doomed.

Paul.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

I don't have an electric vehicle and not keen on getting one. In normal circumstances (pre Covid) they would not give me the range or flexibility of my Cat 6 diesel powered car with extremely low emissions!

Having to leave your vehicle overnight at the railway station to charge up and walk home…really?

Reading through the posts on this thread (and others referring to charging problems) it seems to me that it's another political must have deadline to do away with IC power and replace with EV and then, usually decades later to put in the necessary infrastructure! It won't be long before they start taxing these vehicles to pay for the extra power stations and distribution.

Very similar to the target to fill the country with new housing and warehousing without building the road structure to cope with all the extra traffic!

Progress??

[Author]

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