Eccentricity / Run-Out

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

A bit off piste but highlighting the "Extended warranty". Recently, (last week) bought a double socket adaptor for the telephone wall socket for the princely sum of £1.27 on "The Site", BUT—– for an extra £8 odd I could have a three year extended electrical warranty on said item. Took a lot of soul searching to decline.

 

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 28/09/2017 10:40:17

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 27/09/2017 21:00:00:

Simple advice for buying washing machines:

 

2 Don't buy the extended warranty

Until our daughter moved out I've always bought the extended warranty for one reason only, I've spent most of my working life doing engineering service work and spending weeks away from home and the last thing was a problem at home that I couldn't sort out, by having the warranty meant that all my wife had to do was pick up the phone and having a small child meant she went to top of the list, it cost more obviously but I had piece of mind.

 

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 28/09/2017 10:46:24

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

My washing machine also sounded like a bucket of rocks, thats because I use the rocks on the banks of the thames to wash my overalls.

I was amazed when I decided I could have a go at repair on an old Indesit I had and the lump of cast concrete on the top of the drum. needless to say it was 12 years old and beyond hope so I invested in one of the direct drive LG washers, which is so quiet and does not take a walk on the spin cycle.

The mention of concrete lump reminds me of the Citroen owner that filled the front "boot" with poured concrete to trim the car up after the rear suspension had given way and he was not going to fork out for the repair. So how about adding more weight to the drum, another 3 CWT should do the trick.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I went into a branch of John Lewis today and took a look at the Miele washing machines. For your £960 odd quid (cheaper version available) you get a two year warranty then you claim an extra eight years full parts and labour warranty in with the price.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If a Miele is knackered then it really is knackered

They go well for 7-10 years(heavy use) then everything goes at once

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 28/09/2017 19:27:06:

I went into a branch of John Lewis today and took a look at the Miele washing machines. For your £960 odd quid (cheaper version available) you get a two year warranty then you claim an extra eight years full parts and labour warranty in with the price.

.

Thanks for that, Chris

… Rather strangely, it appears to be only that one model that offers +8years warranty extension

**LINK**

https://www.johnlewis.com/miele-wdd030-freestanding-ecoplus-comfort-washing-machine-8kg-load-a-energy-rating-1400rpm-spin-white/p3176647?navAction=jump#tabinfo-spcl-off

If you hadn't seen it in-store, I might have assumed it was a typo.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ady1 on 28/09/2017 19:40:50:

If a Miele is knackered then it really is knackered

They go well for 7-10 years(heavy use) then everything goes at once

.

I think you're probably right Ady

… I still haven't checked how old ours is; but it's somewhere in that region.

MichaelG.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

.

Useful description, thanks Phil

However; As I said in the opening post … there is no evidence of bearing failure, or of looseness.

It is conceiveable that the shaft is bent; but it is not evident … the drum appears simply to have been displaced radially.

The noise and vibration are apalling; and yes, the drum is intermittently contacting the door gasket.

I don't really understand what has happened, but I'm pretty sure something significant is amiss !!

[ forensic inspection to follow in due course ]

MichaelG.

It won't be the shaft that has bent, it will have displaced the drum on the spider. When the spider is fitted to the drum, there is usually some small amount of adjustment to get the drum concentric with the shaft. I think this adjustment has moved, or the bolts holding the drum to the spider have bent slightly. |If the shaft itself had bent, you would know about it as soon as it went into spin!

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Edit that, if the noise and vibration are appaling, and it is touching the door gasket, time for serious strip down, or a new one. My cousin has an LG, and it has been faultless for several years, and Very quiet, In the same amount of time I have had a Bosch, which suffered spider failure, and now a Gorenje, which has had a new door (it has broken again) and a new tub complete with bearings, all under the five year warranty. Like most things today, unless you pay a lot, and select the models carefully, you get something that will last probably 2 to 3 years if you are lucky.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Edit that, if the noise and vibration are appaling, and it is touching the door gasket, time for serious strip down, or a new one. My cousin has an LG, and it has been faultless for several years, and Very quiet, In the same amount of time I have had a Bosch, which suffered spider failure, and now a Gorenje, which has had a new door (it has broken again) and a new tub complete with bearings, all under the five year warranty. Like most things today, unless you pay a lot, and select the models carefully, you get something that will last probably 2 to 3 years if you are lucky.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Phil,

Thanks for your updates … I think we have reached the same diagnosis.

… either the drum has slipped [within its manufacturing adjustment range], or something in that mounting area is broken.

The LG direct drive machines do look very promising [low noise level, and good reviews]

MichaelG.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Yes, my cousins is the direct drive model , he is very pleased with it, but I think it was nearly £600!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martin perman on 28/09/2017 10:45:29:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 27/09/2017 21:00:00:

Simple advice for buying washing machines:

2 Don't buy the extended warranty

Until our daughter moved out I've always bought the extended warranty for one reason only, I've spent most of my working life doing engineering service work and spending weeks away from home and the last thing was a problem at home that I couldn't sort out, by having the warranty meant that all my wife had to do was pick up the phone and having a small child meant she went to top of the list, it cost more obviously but I had piece of mind.

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 28/09/2017 10:46:24

Yes but… in my experience the extended warranty (bought at purchase) usually costs as much as new machine.

My assumption is that I'm unlikely to have two machines fail without getting three years out of them, bearing in mind that the standard failure curve for electronic equipment has most of the failures in the first few months or after several years.

Neil

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

In forty years, we've has four washing machines, the first was second hand and I maintained that until the casing disintegrated after six years, the next two had warranties and lasted about fifteen years each and the latest is approx four years old and has no warranty beyond the two years offered, they all ran at least once a day.

One of the machines had several parts replaced but the others have never missed a beat, the latest is a Bosch.

They are like our central heating, it has only ever had two pumps, the one fitted when we moved in 29 years ago and the current one, the boiler is 25 years old and still gets a good bill of health when serviced every year, the reason I think that they have all lasted is because they all work 365 days a year.

Martin P

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

8 years out of Miele so far, had to de gunge small pipes to get it to realise it had pumped out. Must do more high temp maintenance washes.

14 years out of Zanussi but although the drum bearings are easy to replace the seals were not so easy, at least the surface they run on is hard to repair. Called it a day when you couldn't hear the helicopters going into Benson.

Hotpoint and Indesit were total crap but cheap

Mike

[Colin WhittakerParticipant @colinwhittaker20544]

Not a washing machine but a cooker, bought in the January sales in Cambridge in the mid 1990's for around 500 GBP.

Did I want the extended warranty? No thank you.

What about failures? Is this an unreliable cooker? No. OK then no extended warranty.

But the halogen hobs are very expensive when they fail. And so on for 5 minutes or more.

My slighly exasperated final response, "Can I buy this cooker without an extended warranty?"

It's now 20+ years later. For the last 10 years the cooker has been operating in an open air house kitchen in Phuket with the sea air doing it's best to encourage lots of surface rust. Several years back the digital clock failed and I had to bypass it to get power to the main oven. One of the hob switches was threatening to go intermittent last year but the problem went away. Last month a lightning strike punched a hole through a wire's insulation and burnt out a connection (now spliced).

Extended warranties are to make money for the retailer. If you can afford to carry the risk then you'll normally make money out of the deal.

Please excuse the telling of this off topic tale; my traditional family audience now regards this story with ill disguised boredom.

Edited By Colin Whittaker on 29/09/2017 04:07:49

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/09/2017 21:19:37:

Yes but… in my experience the extended warranty (bought at purchase) usually costs as much as new machine.

My assumption is that I'm unlikely to have two machines fail without getting three years out of them, bearing in mind that the standard failure curve for electronic equipment has most of the failures in the first few months or after several years.

I'm with you Neil. Extended warranty is a form of Insurance which is all about statistical averaging over many individual policies to ensure that the insurer makes a profit overall all after all claims.

So, I never pay for extended warranty on principle and apply the statistics over all of my devices, appliances and white goods. If I get one dodgy item that dies before it should do, out of warranty, then I am pretty certain that I've saved enough by not buying the warranties on all of the other "good" products to cover it.

Jon

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

I very rarely if ever buy extended warranty but I suppose if it makes an individual feel more secure then it's worth it for them, I know someone who doesn't insure their house, neither buildings nor contents because the chances of them being destroyed are statistically remote, that certainly wouldn't suit me.

John

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

I had a similar problem with 'run out' on my '92 Hoover. After changing so many wrong parts , it turned out to be motor brushes. Still running well after 25 years.

Was cheated out of free trip to New York by Hoover along with thousands of others.

[AlanWParticipant @alanw96569]

Extended warranties are a blatant con for any product, particularly anything electronic/electrical. Google 'bathtub curve' for a detailed explanation but, to cut to the chase, if it doesn't break down during the warranty period under normal use, it will likely have a long and useful life until totally worn out. That is why equipment for military applications undergo a 'burn-in' process to fast-forward the period where 'infant mortality' failure could occur.

Alan

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Con or not I had piece of mind when working away from home knowing my wife and Daughter were not stuck if something went wrong.

Martin P

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by martin perman on 29/09/2017 17:31:50:

Con or not I had piece of mind when working away from home knowing my wife and Daughter were not stuck if something went wrong.

Martin P

Good point – you can't overvalue piece of mind. I had the opposite problem with my wife and daughter: if I wasn't there, plumbers would be called out and new machines ordered at the slightest hint of trouble.

My mum is very pleased with the extended warranty on her central heating. She can't resist 'saving money' by turning the boiler temperature down. So far she's had three replacement pumps in five years – they run continuously trying to heat a big house with lukewarm water.

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by J Hancock on 29/09/2017 15:28:13:

I had a similar problem with 'run out' on my '92 Hoover. After changing so many wrong parts , it turned out to be motor brushes.

.

Forgive me, but; I can't really see faulty motor brushes causing a clearly visible eccentricity of the drum when it's empty, and being turned-over by hand.

I'm glad it worked-out well for you though.

MichaelG.

.

Rough estimate for mine is [as mentioned in my opening post]:

[0° = +5mm] … [90° = 0mm] …[180° = -5mm] … [270° = 0mm]

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/09/2017 18:50:56

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

The machine would try to bounce along the floor whenever a change of speed was required.

Like it was massively out of balance.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by J Hancock on 29/09/2017 20:59:26:

The machine would try to bounce along the floor whenever a change of speed was required.

Like it was massively out of balance.

.

I don't doubt what you say … but I'm afraid it's not really 'similar' to the very obvious actual physical run-out on the drum of our machine.

MichaelG.

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