Ebay rules

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 24/09/2017 15:21:30:

Just noticed an email from ebay which states the following:

users are not permitted to complete outside of eBay any sales transactions with each other arising from items listed on the eBay platform. Offers to buy and sell or communicate outside of eBay constitute policy violations and may be subject to a range of actions including limits on buying and selling privileges as well as the application of final value fees for such transactions, the application of fees for the introduction of a seller to a buyer and the recovery of expenses for policy monitoring and enforcement. The same can result from sharing or requesting contact information with the intention to trade outside of eBay. You can read the relevant policy here.

​ Now some of this may be fair enough if someone is listing with the sole purpose of gaining new contacts for business but it seems to catch anybody who justs wants to have a conversation with a seller without going through the ebay system.

​ Is it just me or is this a bit too much of big brother.

Doug

Permitted?… who do they think they are?

Anyway, back in the real world… Whilst eBay won't appreciate these "policy violations" and their website being used for people to 'hook up' with one another, there isn't much they can do except remove the "privileges" they give to users. At this point though they diminish in appeal and become just one of many such businesses on the Internet.

The thought that a business would try somehow to prevent an individual from openly communicating with another is rather worrying to me. Perhaps they should move to some sort of paywall model of trading if they're that keen to have a closed platform.

Martin.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Circlip on 26/09/2017 10:53:08:

And a "Sellers" location is stated as Portsmouth but I can't collect the item 'cos there's one hundred and odd quid "Postage" to pay.

Regards Ian.

Funny you should say that. a couple of months ago, HMRC invited members of U.K freight forwarders assocation for a consultation meeting.

Such products – usually the larger size variety which cant come by airmail – are kept in 'fulfilment centres' – many of which are in places like Portsmounth. These fulfilment centres are freight forwarders warehouses.

So here is a theoretical scenario:

'China famous hu flung dung' factory ships to U.K.. The fiction invoice could say product value GBP10.00. The product could be a router – maybe, with ballscrews, highspeed spindle etc.. Duty and tax paid on GBP10.00 = £2.20 aprrox.

Fred comes to buy said router on Ebay or whoever and pays £500.00. 'China famous hu flung dung' (CFHFD) factory is registered with HMRC for VAT, so Fred pays £500.00 inc.VAT.CFHFD factory collects the VAT £83.33 on behalf of HMRC. The £500.00 is usually sent to a foreign bank account, through good old Paypal – which is registered in Luxembourg or elsewhere.

CFHFD factory has to pay HMRC every three months on their VAT return. Sadly, CFHFD factory missed a payment, closed down/disappeared before it had to pay HMRC.

This comes as a terrible shock to the Portsmouth U.K. freight forwarder (who has been paid up-front for his clearance and fulfilment services), as he has lost a customer. So imagine the surprise when he gets another Chinese company CFHFD-Mark 2 starting to use his services. Surely the U.K. freight forwarder doesn't know anything about this , especially considering the high volume of Chinese names companies who operate out of the same centre.

As I mentioned, above is just theoretical, and possibly words of fiction.

Anyway, in HMRC's consultation with the Portsmouth based/type freight forwarders – clearing agents – fulfilment centres, HMRC advised such organisations that it is keeping a close eye on such U.K. fulfilemnt centres working with foreign businesses. I wonder why that is?. Surely there cant be so many incidents of Chinese company closures who are working with such centres, resulting in defaults to HMRC? Why should HMRC have such a consultation?

Perhaps by end of this year/during next year (depending on if and when the powers allow), HMRC will hold such freight forwarders/fulfilment centres responsible for revenue defaults made by the foreign companies, so it is asking such organizations to vet more closely the foreign partners they work with. Such freight forwarders are already acting 'dum and stupid' crying words of 'not fair' 'how was I to know'… but as far as I am concerned it is good thing that HMRC has started.

Ketan at ARC.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 26/09/2017 11:28:40:

Ketan,

I can well understand your frustration with the whole set up, it must be very difficult to trade in the UK when there is not a level playing field with regard to China etc.

On the other hand it does give us cheapskates a way of keeping our various hobbies going at less cost. In doing this it probably increases the overall market and you may well benefit indirectly.

So on a positive note maybe it is a win win situation

Doug

Agreed,

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

I recall asking my mother some 65 years ago when her friend meant by 'I am too poor to buy a cheap item' – she was not well enough off to buy a replacement when the poor quality item failed.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

There is certainly something odd with the way HMRC works with Chinese imports. I have always had to pay duty on items costing more than £18 inc postage from the US. I have never had to pay duty on anything bought from China through Ebay, however high the value is. That really isn't right – if for no other reason that the US is officially an ally, while China isn't.

When it comes to rare and difficult to get fountain pens, E-bay has allowed me to get one or two, and also allowed me to explore the rapidly improving range of Chinese fountain pens. The is no alternative marketplace for those pens, so lumping it, with respect to e-bay terms & conditions, is required. I have noticed a massive improvement in the last 10 years in the quality and consistency of Chinese pens. They are now getting to the 'acceptable' stage. It would be nice if they became 'good'.

Regards

Richard.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Good luck with expecting HMRC to get their act together and go after E-Bay, Amazon et al. Even if they did any imposed tax systems would probably be so complicated that there would be more loopholes than rules.

It seems self evident that any effective tax system should not only target something that has to sit still and be counted but also be simple. Simple inevitably minimising loopholes. Something that HMRC doesn't seem to understand.

Given the prevalence of electronic financial transactions these days, pretty much everything beyond corner shop, dodgy builder and "second hand via the ad in the local rag" level seems to be electronic now, maybe its time for Chancellor Clives uber simple tax system.

Replace all current taxation with a simple flat rate percentage on every electronic transfer except those between accounts belonging to the same person. Sort of like flat rate VAT for everything, wages and all, without the claim back headaches. Like to see the multi nationals try and get round that!

Maybe a double rate on out of country transaction to a foreign located head office obviously set up as a tax dodge. So thats four lots of tax, 2 going out and 2 going in, on E-Bay via Luxembourg. While we are at it might as well impose postage and transport charge tax at UK flat rate postage and foreign shipment rate equivalent not whatever HFD China Inc puts on the invoice.

Dunno what the actual rate would have to be. I imagine it could be computed from the monetary velocity of circulation, or whatever the electronic transfer equivalent is. My guess is something around 3%, certainly less than 5%, should be fine so losses on last mile cash transactions probably wouldn't be worth going after. If HMRC got antsy could always stop printing £20 and £50 notes to make cash less attractive. Maybe also limit the size of untaxed cash withdrawals or payments to a bank account too. Uber simple tax system saves a bomb on admin costs so squeezing every last penny doesn't seem worth it. Probably still be stuck with a few extra duties like on fuel and alcohol tho'.

Major issue is finding jobs for all the redundant civil servants and accountants to do. Plenty of openings in Border Control post Brexit I guess but nowhere near enough. Some thought needed to accommodate lower paid and non taxpaying workers as a system of this sort effectively makes everyone pay tax. Simple answer is to fold into a simplified universal credit system with a auto top up from the state for folk who don't earn enough. Doable I think but getting government departments to abide by KISS is worse than herding cats.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 26/09/2017 23:42:26

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