Cutting a fine groove

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Hi,

In one of my latest projects I wish to cut a groove about 1mm deep and about 0.5mm or 0.6mm wide, material will be stainless steel. I am almost resigned to trying to re-grind a HSS parting tool in order to do this.

Of course someone out there has probably done this already or knows where a tool that is narrow enough can be bought?

Thanks,

Ian

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Where to buy a tool for cutting a narrow groove

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Something like the Mini-thin parting & grooving system would do the job nicely. Tips come in a range of widths in about 0.1mm increments and not too hard to make your own holder if you don't want to buy one. MSC sell them.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Slitting saw?

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Make a parting tool from an old hacksaw blade if you don't want to buy a special tool.
I must say the MiniThin tools look good, though!

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I bought some of the Mini thin blades a few years ago and found they were very nice for this sort of thing. The downside is the cost and the fact that they are pretty fragile. My ones fractured long ago and would only be replaced if they were cheaper or really needed.

Doug

[Peter TuckerParticipant @petertucker86088]

Hi Ian,

A circlip grooving tool can do that job.

Hope this helps.

Peter.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Thank you, lots of ideas there and a kind offer from John Stevenson. Who are MSC by the way?

Thanks again,

Ian

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Google "msc" and this comes up – **LINK**

Other search engines are available.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Does nobody grind their own toolbits anymore? A piece of 1/4" or 5/16" or whatever HSS ground down in the shape of a shallow parting tool to the correct width will take you about five minutes to make. You  can use a micrometer to measure the width of the toolbit tip so you can get the width to within a thou or so if you so desire. Finishing the last thou or three on an oilstone may help if width is that critical. Shape of the tool is shown below at D, sides have the usual five to ten degrees or so of relief. For grooving you will not need to make the blade so long, so it will be sturdier and easier to grind to such a thin width. Not too hard really.

Edited By Hopper on 16/06/2017 00:27:44

Edited By Hopper on 16/06/2017 00:30:50

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Posted by Robbo on 15/06/2017 22:15:37:

Google "msc" and this comes up – **LINK**

Other search engines are available.

Thanks Robbo

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Hi Hopper,

In years gone by yes I ground many a tool on various grindstones, in fact I was made responsible for dressing them and checking balance, width and dia to make sure they were safe and ready to go or change the wheels if needed. I even went to universal to learn more when they were based in Staffordshire.

The reason I don't now is that I have a poxy little bench grinder which would be ok at a push, apart from the useless tool rests, they are so small they are next to useless, and I know what your thinking, why not make better rests. You would be right in that as well, although I am thinking of upgrading to a decent (ish) grinder and then using some angle plate to give me a tool rest that's safe to use and will allow me to produce more of my own tools when required.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I prefer the Mini-thin and find the tips quite durable. I have ground narrow HSS ones in the past but although they may take 5mins to grind the often seemed to snap in 4mins I originally bought it as I had quite  afew "E"clip grooves to do in 3mm dia silver steel which it was ideal for. Also good for a relief cut at the end of a thread where it buts upto a shoulder.

 

MSC often do the tips at a reduced rate in their monthly sales flyers which is the time to buy them, they also have a set with holder and about 5 tips at a good price too that regularly crops up.

Edited By JasonB on 16/06/2017 13:22:08

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I ground a short 1mm wide tip on the end of wider parting tool.

Neil

[NigeParticipant @nige81730]

Last night I was sorting through a load of old taps and dies I inherited along with the ML4 and wondered if taps that had seen better days could be ground to serve as lathe tools for occasions such as Ian Skeldon 2 is enquiring? I know the taps are 'hard' as they are HSS but seem to remember that they are also 'brittle' and wonder if this precludes their use as lathe cutting tools?

The smallest taps and dies I found in the stuff I sorted out are 12 BA ! 😳

Nige

[IanTParticipant @iant]

My 'groover' is a bit of Junior hacksaw blade, held in a special tool holder I made (very quickly) by first slitting a length of square mild steel (to take the piece of blade) – then turning that end round before clamping the blade with a collar and grub screw that fits over the turned end. Hope that's clear but I'll post a photo if anyone Is particularly interested.

Costs virtually nothing to make and works well on small brass & mild steel parts (not tried it on stainless). Needs a bit of side room from the chuck and I've meant to make a Mason form of blade holder but not got round to it yet as this as been OK for my needs thus far….

Regards,

IanT

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Hopper on 16/06/2017 00:21:54:

Does nobody grind their own toolbits anymore?

Yes, here's one I made earlier. A 1 mm parting tool for parting a number of parts off 1/8 in silver steel.

I've also made a holder for 1/8 round HSS or silver steel toolbits. The latter can be made very quickly by filing before hardening and finish grinding. The round bits are very good for threading as they can be rotated to suit the helix angle – not my idea G. H. Thomas' idea.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 25/06/2017 11:09:29

[egaParticipant @ega]

Ian T:

"My 'groover' is a bit of Junior hacksaw blade"

This interested me as I have always thought the Junior blades were made from old tobacco tin lids! This clearly works for you, of course, and I may give it a try. The Junior blades do seem to be a few thou thinner than a conventional 12" hacksaw blade and a good deal thinner than standard parting blades.

Given that it seems necessary to grind the teeth off the blade an all hard type would appear to be a better bet.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

I decided to try a few trial attempts before committing to the required end product. The hack saw blade attempts were not very good, but to be honest I will try again with a better quality hacksaw blade. Grinding an old HSS tool is almost there, but the tool still needs to lose another 0.3 or 0.4 mm in width in order to produce the result I need. I did manage to get one groove that is satisfactory, I used a very thin carborundum disc from a set intended for a dremel drill, it took for ever but did eventually manage it. It has made me think about using a mini drill somehow secured in the tool post and then grinding the groove, I will let you know if I do try this and of if it works.

Mean time thanks for all the suggestions.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 25/06/2017 17:18:26:

I decided to try a few trial attempts before committing to the required end product. The hack saw blade attempts were not very good, but to be honest I will try again with a better quality hacksaw blade.

I made a holder for broken bits of HSS hacksaw blades about 20 years ago and still find use for it occasionally. The 12" x ½" blades are about 0.7 mm thick so will still need to be thinned down a little.

Russell

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Trying the hacksaw blades has made me realise how poor our general quality of simple tools and engineering supplies have become. As an apprentice (many, many years ago) hacksaw blades were very hard and of course that made them brittle, but they never bent, twisted or deformed like the stuff you get now, and they lasted well, ah well reminiscing over.

Thanks Russell, I'll try to source some dearer, better quality ones and have a go with one.

Ian

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 25/06/2017 20:23:28:

Trying the hacksaw blades has made me realise how poor our general quality of simple tools and engineering supplies have become. As an apprentice (many, many years ago) hacksaw blades were very hard and of course that made them brittle, but they never bent, twisted or deformed like the stuff you get now, and they lasted well, ah well reminiscing over.

Thanks Russell, I'll try to source some dearer, better quality ones and have a go with one.

Ian

It would be really interesting to test a New Old Stock 1960 hacksaw blade against a modern one to see if they really were better. Personally I doubt it: if old tools were so good, why the cars so bad?

Anyway, better or not, modern hacksaw blades are rather likely to have been made differently to an older one. Only the teeth are HSS and the rest of the blade is flexible rather than hard. This means they're less suitable for conversion into a grooving tool.

Dave

[Max ToleranceParticipant @maxtolerance69251]

All hard hacksaw blades are still available from good tool suppliers. I never use anything else!

The modern bi-metal blades are widely sold and many people seem to think they are the only type in town. Even some sales reps. deny the existence of all hard blades.But if you persist and are willing to pay the extra then you can still get hold of them. As the previous poster mentioned they don't like bending and will shatter if not used correctly (hence the popularity of the bi-metal ones) Unfortunately many users have never been shown the correct way to use a hacksaw and would find it an expensive learning experience.

At work I can leave my hacksaw out on the bench and no-one will use it because they hate the blades snapping. …….BUT I am the only one who can cut a straight line and the younger lads think it is some kind of magic secret that only I know. They will confidently state that it is impossible to do this with a hacksaw even when I demonstrate that it isn't.

Another source of good HSS is machine hacksaw blades, the old fashioned reciprocating donkey type saws.Not the modern band type. These make excellent tools and because they are quite wide there is a lot more strength in them.

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

I have a sort of rear tool post that is fitted with a very thin slitting saw, as a cutting blade. It is rigidly fixed, with the tip of the tooth in use set at centre height. Works very well as long as I keep a stiff artists paintbrush handy to keep it clear of swarf. I started using it for some parting off where I needed minimum waste, but it does cut very nice grooves.

Maurice

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I am also a fan of the all hard blade and fitted in a decent frame will give you the best chance of cutting where you intended. Cutting conduit on the bender vice unit will result in a broken blade very quickly if you do not use the flexible version. So it is horses for courses, on a fitters bench with an all hard blade and a decent frame a square cut is possible. Having the right equipment will not guarantee a good result but not having it will almost ensure a poor result.

Mike

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