Covid causing mental health issues.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

My point was that the correlation between IQ test scores and lifetime income shows that something the IQ test measures is of practical value in real life. Whether that something is intelligence, or culture or education, or (most likely) a combination thereof, the IQ test has its uses as a fairly reliable predictor of things like future income and future academic performance at higher education.

The test can not be discounted as completely useless or as testing only for "the ability to take IQ tests". It has its uses. But certainly is not a measure of a person's value in society or talent in certain areas or emotional intelligence etc. And there are plenty of not-so-smart people who end up fabulously wealthy through other talents such as charisma, people skills, motivation, back stabbing, hard work or just dumb good luck.

Interestingly, while there is a correlation between IQ test scores and lifetime income, there is not the same correlation between IQ scores and overall wealth. IE, higher income people spend more and end up about the same wealth as everyone else in wealth assets such as stock portfolios, home equity, investment properties and retirement funds etc.

At the same time, the IQ test scores of people who own luxury yachts and high-end luxury cars and unusually large investment portfolios is all across the board. Possibly because they inherit their wealth. Or possibly could it be because the high IQ test performers tend to go on to higher education and better jobs and work for a salary all their life? While lower IQ test performers don't end up with so many good-paying jobs so are more likely to explore going into business and other ways of generating wealth over their lifetime?

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

I am frankly astonished that this thread has becom a discussion about IQ. The level of ignorance displayed in some of the posts is beyond belief. Does anyone think that Winston Churchill ( bipolar disorder) was a snowflake? Mental illness has no respect for any of societies benchmarks. You can't run a vernier over wellbeing or state of mind. The greatest hurdle in tackling mental health issues is acceptance from the sufferer that they exist at all. Next is that some of their nearest and dearest will of the ''pull yourself together'' school. Keep an eye on your friends and be a good listener but above all be kind.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Lee Rogers on 26/09/2020 08:49:33:

I am frankly astonished that this thread has becom a discussion about IQ. The level of ignorance displayed in some of the posts is beyond belief. Does anyone think that Winston Churchill ( bipolar disorder) was a snowflake? Mental illness has no respect for any of societies benchmarks. You can't run a vernier over wellbeing or state of mind. The greatest hurdle in tackling mental health issues is acceptance from the sufferer that they exist at all. Next is that some of their nearest and dearest will of the ''pull yourself together'' school. Keep an eye on your friends and be a good listener but above all be kind.

Yes we digress. As is not unusual in Tea Room threads or conversations in real life.

The last two words of your post absolutely nails it: Be kind. If there were a lot more of that in the world there would be a lot fewer problems.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

In the early nineties I had a serious mental breakdown and it was found to be delayed PTSD from unpleasant work experiences earlier in my working life. I was treated by psychiatrists for a number of years and deemed incapable of returning to normal work, a good friend of mine suggested that as I had worked in engineering all my working life then perhaps a lathe and interest in working models would benefit me, he had a similar background and is a Korean War Veteran and found modelling had really helped him. I purchased a lathe and two milling machines and many more tools and I became engrossed with my new hobby, it helped me to slowly recover to a more normal state. I have always had great affection for felines, We currently have four, and I find that sitting in front of a log fire with cats sitting asleep on my lap is very calming. Our cats are precious to us, real members of the family, we have a largish garden which is fully secured so that our cats cannot get out and roam, we are too near a busy road and two of the cats are deaf so wouldn’t stand a chance in the world outside, they love their garden world. Because my wife has severe asthma problems and I recently had pneumonia we have shielded ever since lockdown began in March to avoid the virus, we don’t miss the contact with outsiders and far from being detrimental to our mental health we seem to have an air of calm within the house which we hadn’t had before. As regards talking to animals, I do it all the time with my cats and so does my wife, it causes confusion sometimes because I never know who the wife’s conversations are addressed to, me or one of the cats. In respect of Covid and mental health issues, as far as our household is concerned we seem to be enjoying the lack of contact with the outside world, life seems to proceed at a completely different pace now, a lot less stress, no time pressures to meet deadlines. If people are suffering mental health issues that they attribute to Covid then I am sure that these issues were already with them and suppressed but because of the changes to lifestyle brought about by Covid then their mental health issues were brought to the fore. Meanwhile I am going to continue chilling out and enjoying life in my little family bubble.

Dave W

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Now I read that some team of software developers – undoubtedly all of them of high IQ – have failed to allow entry of a negative test result to the NHS Covid-19 phone app if the test was booked by another means.

So the users can't reverse the isolation alert.

It really does beggar belief. I spent donkey's years in software development, and I don't think I've ever seen such a dropout in such an important and trumpeted piece of work. It was because of misgivings about summat like this that I didn't rush to install it.

Of course, it isn't only the fault itself – though FCS that's bad enough – it's wondering what others there might be in there.

Edited By Mick B1 on 26/09/2020 11:39:16

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Good to hear you are coping well Samsaranda. I'm sure the cats are a big help. They make wonderful home companions. I doubt I would have made it through some chronic health problems I had for years without my pair of furry criminals.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Apart from engendering respect for other creatures or life forms, pets, of whatever type are a huge benefit. As a 'cat person' I find their presence essential and our two are treated similarly to Samsaranda's. Winston Churchill's dictum that " Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you and pigs is (sic) equal" rings true! An Australian bumper sticker, apparently, proclaiming that "Dogs have owners, cats have staff" equally so. Interactions with dogs are pretty straightforward; with cats, much less so but more rewarding when they work. Yesterday's news of the deeds of a giant rat PDSA 'hero' was quite uplifting!

rgds

Bill

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Cornish Jack on 26/09/2020 12:22:16:

Apart from engendering respect for other creatures or life forms, pets, of whatever type are a huge benefit. As a 'cat person' I find their presence essential and our two are treated similarly to Samsaranda's. Winston Churchill's dictum that " Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you and pigs is (sic) equal" rings true! An Australian bumper sticker, apparently, proclaiming that "Dogs have owners, cats have staff" equally so. Interactions with dogs are pretty straightforward; with cats, much less so but more rewarding when they work. Yesterday's news of the deeds of a giant rat PDSA 'hero' was quite uplifting!

rgds

Bill

Yes, Cats are an essential part of our household. A house without having independent creatures wandering around at will doing what they do is just a house to me, it’s not a home.

I too found the article about Magawa the mine finding Rat uplifting as you put it as well.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Mick B1,

Unfortunately, I have come across a number of software projects where the programmer has failed to consider the users, and what they may, or may not do.

I'm not a programmer, or software writer, or whatever they wish to call themselves, and I admit that the examples are all trivial, but it still leaves one wondering what else may be wrong. E.g.:-

A list of options, not in any sort of order, and certainly not alphabetic.

A list of options which did not include the necessary (ie it applied to me) of saying "None of the Above"

A programme which asked for my status, eg Employed/Unemployed/Retired. In my case Retired. Two questions down the programme then asked what my employer did.

A screen display using these silly "Almonds" in the corner of the screen, right where it could be mistaken for a screen aberration.

A programme which for no good reason that I can see changed the method of expanding or contracting windows from grabbing hold of the relevant side and moving it, to one whereby the user has to use the top left corner to expand/contract followed by moving the whole window if the required display is off to the right or the bottom.

A programme which in different places asks for an 8 digit number in a 2 x 4 configuration, but later asks for another 8 digit number, this time in a 1 x 8 configuration,ie lack of consistency.

The same programme which in one place places the cursor ready for data input, yet elsewhere does not. Now this could possibly be a security issue, but it would be better to be consistent.

I am therefore no longer surprised at anything a program may, or may not do; programs with a distinct lack of consistency; and above all, no thoughts about the poor user who has to navigate the morass of poor programming.

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 26/09/2020 15:23:36

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Cats v. dogs.

I like dogs, provided they have not been "adjusted" by "well-meaning" people to look like something from outer space, and that they are of a reasonable size. Indeed my preferred dog is the Labrador, with the Golden Retriever a close second.

Cats. Don't like them at all. Furthermore, if you must have one, then make sure it is confined to your land, and doesn't go messing on my garden. And no arguments about it's a wild creature, or something similar. You expect dog owners to keep their dogs under control, which I agree with even though I have had two, so why shouldn't I expect cat owners to keep their cats under control.

Peter G. Shaw

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Since we sold our small farm over 20 years ago, we've not had a dog, cat, budgerigar, or any other living creature inhabiting our house, though we do have a great assortment of wild birds and animals that roarm around our rural plot to watch and get to know, even individual crows for example. Despite having been in almost constant lockdown since the beginning of the Covid event due to my wife's continuing hospital visits which have been the only times that she's been anywhere near other people and personal contact has only been across the garden hedges with passing neighbours. Having been cleared of one cancer, some weeks ago another was detected. Does all this affect our mental health? Too damned right it does! But surely good mental health is not just being happy all the time, but an ability to make it through the darker times by facing them and balancing with the good? We both have a great store of good memories and we're well blessed living in a pleasant rural location, sufficient money, both brought up to be self sufficient and have a wide range of interests to occupy our minds, a good garden, greenhouse and workshop to keep our fingers bodies busy.

There are more people though crammed into poor housing, in rushed immature relationships, and many are only used to socialising for their entertainment, unable to satisfyingly occupy themselves, often on very limited resources. From what I read and hear many of these are suffering and are quite likely to continue to do so long after our well heeled rulers have allowed people to return to normal human existence. I fear that there will be nowhere near enough resources allocated to helping those who are badly affected get back to normal, despite our national wealth which will continue to flow to more prestigious projects . Some of us are tough nuts hard to crack, others need more support, every single one of us no matter how strong and independent we consider ourselves to be , relies on dozens of other people, usually unseen, to live in the modern world, so if you come across someone suffering, do as Lee Rodgers said, let us all be kind and generous with our thoughts and where possible our deeds.

Trevor

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Peter Shaw :- Game software, commercial, marketing and employment monitoring software is one thing. It's written to a budget, and often uses repurposed routines from elsewhere.

Nationally-released, government- sponsored Public Health software for pandemic control, already delayed and trumpeted as critical, is something else. Yes, you can always expect bugs, but the neglect of such a fundamental function argues a failure of managment at the most basic level.

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

Interesting couple of days…yesterday (Friday ) late afternoon MrsD called me to look out and a cock pheasant and his lady were strutting along inside our boundary hedge. Today at around 2pm, checked the post with the dog and returning he stood and stared. A cock pheasant on the grass, joined at speed by another male and they proceeded to challenge each other, wings outstretched and heads down. Is that what is called 'lecking' ?
DaveD

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Can we be careful discussion of the covid app doesn't stray into politics.

Plenty of other places online to make your view known on that subject!

Neil

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Posted by Trevor Crossman 1 on 26/09/2020 19:12:55:

…

From what I read and hear many of these are suffering and are quite likely to continue to do so long after our well heeled rulers have allowed people to return to normal human existence.

…

Trevor

Trevor, I agree with a lot of what you said, but think it may be worth saying that it's really not our rulers (whatever you think of them and their motives) preventing us from returning to normal existence, it's the blasted virus. The death count in the UK currently stands at at about 40,000 and rising – that's comparable with the number of UK civilians killed in the seven months between Sept 1940 and May 1941 by bombing. But the virus doesn't whistle and bang, so the perception of threat is less immediate. I imagine Londoners in WWII were by and large happy to live with  the inconvenience of the blackout regulations decreed by their well-heeled rulers in order to preserve their lives.

Apologies if I have misconstrued your point – I wish you well.

Robin.

Edited By Robin Graham on 26/09/2020 21:44:46

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Well Robin, thanks for your good wishes, but I'd better careful or I'll get the pointy end of a Mods pencil in my ear, but I am not making any political point, simply that I think that insufficient resources are provided for those folk who need more help both financial and psychological to be able to get through this colossal disruption of normality. The adjective that I used for our rulers is, I feel, valid because they are well funded and have better access to health services than a laid-off short contract family in poor housing where many are becoming very worried about their future.

Social histories confirm that your comparison with 1940/41 is valid, the wealthy and well connected had a much jollier time of it than the common man both in city and county and indeed many reports of less concern for Hitler's bombs than for where the next meal was and if they'd have a job to go to the next day.. The current threat from this virus is not as well proven a danger as several hundred kilos of high explosive landing in your garden and many folks are more confused about the mixed messages and ever changing rules. We won't return to what was before and many others will need help with the readjustment, and that will need both state and community help. There are (barely) working families terrified of what the future holds for them and their children, a normally stout friend has started having panic attacks such that she was admitted to hospital , now recovering. The virus may not be directly causing mental health issues but the conditions it's created do seem to be.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Support for those who have lost jobs, income etc. Is a fantastic thing. But it will only go so far, and last so long before it becomes impossible to keep up. The government can't pay people to do nothing ad infinitum, virus or no.

Support for the aviation industry should be a big NO in my book. If it was not for people being able to fly all over the globe in hours the pandemic would never have spread as quickly if at all. I lay the biggest portion of responsibility at their door, including the folk who simply must travel the world for fun and mind expansion.

Support for football leagues? Ridiculous absolutely ridiculous. It makes money but it produces nothing except grossly inflated wages for a lucky few. Its not a part of our culture, its a game at best and has become a divisive and bloated version of its original roots. Id be glad to see it cut down to size or disappear altogether.

Students, clever people, the brightest young talent? Im sorry but my experience of student life in sheffield is nothing but one mass booze up with a bit of learning thrown in if they can be bothered to turn up to lectures. I know there are studious young people out there taking the best from university education, but the majority are going to Uni for an experience not an education. No wonder there are record numbers of students taking an easy time instead of taking a job.

And finally on the subject of mental health, I have recently had to make use of the NHS services due to a bout of Anxiety and depression. The majority of the programme was based on self help and maintaining a positive attitude rather than any kind of treatment or medicines. Many of my fellow patients at the group sessions grumbled that this was rubbish and not a cure. They totally missed the point that we are all responsible for our own mental as well as physical health. The Nhs can't mend every thing as we are seeing during the virus.

Apoliges for several topics in one post and for being on my soap box but none of this is political, just my honest opinion to which I am entitled. Please don't gave a go if you disagree, just agree to disagree. Its modern life that has brought all these problems on us, maybe we need to change before its too late….

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

"Yes, Cats are an essential part of our household. A house without having independent creatures wandering around at will doing what they do is just a house to me, it’s not a home. "

Well said Vic, so true!

Martin (aka cat staff!)

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Plasma,

I’m much in agreement with what you posted – pwrhaps with a few exceptions.

I agree with the aviation. We could survive without it.

Football is geared for success – making money. Some will fail. So what? Football and other sports will continue at a lower level. The top level is there for what?

Mental health. Much like obesity – it just did not happen in world war II (lets not include shell-shock trauma sufferers). I suspect that a lot (not all, of course) mental health (and obesity) is self-inflicted. Expecting a pill to ‘cure’ the problem (quite likely caused by taking pills in the first place) and/or a pill to reduce poor eating habits just adds to the cost of the NHS at a time when we should all be able to put right the ‘ills’ by changing our outlook – or expectations. Rightly, there are some who need help for mental issues (and some for obesity) but I honestly believe a lot is down to over-blown social expectations.

Just at the moment, the NHS needs all the help it can receive to minimise the covid load, not students ‘jollying it up’ and creating infection hotspots (reported as at the rate of 6000/100,000 infection rate on one forum) or people complaining of the limitations on their activities.

I know that my local pub didn’t care a hoot about social distancing (until recently). I suspect that if the names of those shouting that covid is a hoax, etc,were recorded so that if they catch it they would forego any NHS treatment, there would be fewer out there complaining.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

As we've been told, this virus isn't ever going away, so we're going to live like this forever.

We need to embrace new ways of communicating without the need for embracing physically.

Be kind, be strong, cling on.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

6000 per 100,000 is just 6% of a population of unspecified size – university student accommodation must be the most friendly possible for covid – shared accommodation + communal facilities for a large group at the age when social interaction is essential and any intergroup contact will almost guarantee infection of the group – totally foreseeable by anyone who has lived in student accommodation

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Risk is of getting into politics again, but support for people doing nothing is what might be needed. Very many jobs have and will continue to disappear on account of automation of farming, manufacturing and computerisation of administration. There's no way to continue with the employment of the armies of operatives and clerks of yesteryear, and even skilled sensorimotor jobs like driving and construction are coming under threat.

Some countries are already considering Universal Basic Income, and I'm wondering if this will actually be the only way forward in supporting the populations we have, whose once-crucial roles in the world's economies are being steadily eroded. The drastic reduction due to the pandemic of industries involving travel, hospitality and cosmetic services – which had recently taken up much of the employment slack – (when the textile mills and the mines were still running, how many towns had a nail bar or a pet-grooming parlour?) will only accelerate this trend.

In the medium term, many of the alternatives would be likely to involve atrocities of neglect.

Edited By Mick B1 on 28/09/2020 20:41:03

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

Universal Basic income is another Ponzi scheme paid for Those who are working. Their tax burden is already enough. I am retired.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

It's been obvious for a long time that sooner or later jobs were going to start disappearing. Initially it was computerisation, eg the typing pool being replaced by word processors, then mechanisation, eg machines doing the work which was previously manual work, and then of course off-shoring, eg call centres in India et al, although it has to be said that some companies are bringing these jobs back on shore because although it costs more, in terms of publicity, having a local call centre is proving rather more advantageous. Indeed, I've long thought that eventually we & not necessarily the UK, but worldwide, will have a small core of highly trained individuals whilst the rest of us eke out a miserable existance doing I know not what. In effect Covid-19 looks to me as if it may have brought matters to a head.

What is the answer? I don't know. Just as long as it isn't something like Logan's Run, or Soylent Green.

Peter G. Shaw

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Im only 55, when I was at junior school the question was posed "How old will you be in the year 2000"

Obviously to a 7 year old this was an immeasurable distance away and the answer, 35 years old, was unthinkable.

But we were also asked what we would be doing. Most of us said nothing because robots would be doing all the work and we would just be on holiday full time.

Its not far off that in many industries but no one foresaw how we would fund this constant holiday.

Perhaps covid is bringing things to a head but again, it is we that have caused so much damage to the planet and now even cluttering up space around it that we should look a little closer to home. Mr Attenborough has got it right, if we don't pull our head out of our ass soon it will be too late.

Leaders like Trump and bolsanaro and the rest have such short sight that the race will kill itself off if left to its own devices.

Our tenure on this rock has been but a blip on a geological time scale, even pond slime and big lizards lasted longer than us. Maybe the fat lady is clearing her throat (after losing her sense of taste and smell)

Worried of Wombwell

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