Complete Beginner Requiring Lathe Info

[Corey Lucas-DiversParticipant @coreylucas-divers20633]

The thing is Jason, I don't really know what I want to make, the electronic cigarette stuff was just what raised my interest and awareness and, like I said, the simplicity of some of the bits made them what I thought might be ideal practise fodder.I doubt I would be wanting to make a lot of them, not the same at least, the only reason I would make a lot is to try different techniques and to improve those techniques.

Slotdriller, thanks for your help, I must confess I am leaning towards a new lathe. Having looked through all of the listing on lathes.co.uk, it's made me realise even more that I would have no idea if something was a good or bad example. Thanks also for the publication pointers, I'll check YouYube now then look into the others. In terms of space and access, my back garden is concreted throughout, but also not at all big. I will be restricted to possibly as little as 7' width, so may have to go for 7'x10' shed. Access to the back garden it possible through a back gate but it is quite narrow, I may have to remove a fence panel. I would definitely like to be able to cut metric threads, maybe even twin start threads at some point, but having the versatility to cut imperial threads without gear changes or adapters may be useful at some point.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Corey

The OH! was due to the time (23:00hrs), the fact that I had spent a pretty stressful day – which started at 0600, that I had made several longish post which I had hoped might be useful to you and then discovered that I was on completely the wrong track!

My advice to you now is simply FIRST make up your mind just what use you have for a lathe. A lathe, with all that goes with it, is an expensive acquisition. Unless and until you can identify a definite NEED for one I suggest you hold off. To buy one at this stage would, I think,be like buying a grand piano because you think it might be useful in the future and then you could use it to learn music.

Good luck, whatever your decision

Norman

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

150 years ago watch and clock makers used to turn balance staffs etc between centres using a bow and hand held gravers I know a clock repairer who still does My first introduction to lathe work was hand turning at technical college in the late 40s The watch makers tool is known as a set of turns or more sophisticated a mandrel You don't need to spend thousands just to make swarf

Roy

[Anonymous]

Corey: A few random thoughts:

Personally I don't think that a DRO on a lathe is essential. On a milling machine yes, probably one of the most useful things I ever bought, but I have no plans to add one to my lathe.

I'd agree with JasonB, the electronic cigarette tips are complex parts to make on a manual machine. Lots of custom tooling and/or equipment would be needed.

For materials I'd start with free cutting mild steel. It's much cheaper than stainless and probably easier to turn. Buy materials from a reputable source; do not use material that came out of the scrap box. You don't know what it is, and it might be a real pig to machine, which is not helpful when starting out. For austenitic stainless steels 303 and 316 turn beautifully, but 304 is a right pig to machine.

While it is possible to get lathes that have quick change gearboxes for both imperial and metric threads one or other of them is going to more difficult. For example my lathe, Harrison M300, has both imperial and metric threading, but the lathe is imperial. So cutting imperial threads is simple, but for metric threads you need to keep the half nuts engaged all the time. The reverse would be true for a metric version. The upshot of that is that you need to decide which threads you are most likely to be cutting, and make those the simplest.

It would be helpful to know roughly where you are based, there may be somebody local who would be willing to give advice.

Regards,

Andrew

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Norman. Good ( if not the very best ) advice.

But if you have one ( acceptable) reason , you will rapidly find other purposes .

If compound curves are a requirement of your primary part then cnc will probably be the way to go..also makes screw cutting ( correct me here about “hobby” cnc) a breeze.

But if exact size is less the need than finish a lot can be achived with “pivot” files…ask the clockmakers. ( and yes of course size is important to clockmakers but you get what I mean )..

Edited By jason udall on 06/10/2013 11:32:10

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Taking this from a different angle. Table stakes to get started with new Chinese kit focused around the lathe as the key piece of kit, I'd guess are over £1000. That ignores all the fancy bits. There are some things that are mandatory – you need to be able to measure the work and mark it out. The you need to be able to cut it.

I'll get shot down, but I cannot work out how you can run a lathe without an off-hand grinder.

My suggestion would be:

a) Be clear about what your "thing" is – mine happens to be small engines.

b) Use that to size machine requirements

c) Price up the minimum but complete set of things you need to complete your first project – still interested?

d) Try and find a local club / college course or Old timer who can help you set up.

e) Buy new, warranted kit until you get enough experience to sort out secondhand stuff

Steve

[Corey Lucas-DiversParticipant @coreylucas-divers20633]

Thanks again everyone. Actually CNC was my initial thought because I have a background in computers and have done quite a bit of programming, although not a lot of CAD/CAM stuff. Later I thought it would be better to start without CNC, because it would give me a better knowledge base in terms of understanding tooling, spin and feed speeds, etc. It seemed sensible to me to know how everything functioned mechanically before automating anything. It also seems that CNC is more benefit for increasing production and repeating single tasks over and over. This may be useful, if I wanted to sell stuff to contribute towards funding my future machining, but would require a much larger investment in the first place.

I'm in North Dorset, by the way.

[Corey Lucas-DiversParticipant @coreylucas-divers20633]

It looks like ArcTrade may be getting a bit of business. I think I am going to go for the Sieg Super C6, but they are out of stock at the moment. Thanks for everyone's help getting me to this point. Been loving Tubalcain's (MrPete222) videos, really informative. Also decided on a 12' x 6' shed, but still need to get quite a bit of stuff moved around in the garden. As they are quite cheap, I guess I may as well get a grinder as well and I'm also drawn to the Sieg power hacksaw, which looks ideal for cutting bars and other stock in manageable sizes for lathe use. I'm still unsure about a mill, but I guess it makes sense to leave getting one until I reach a point where I need to do something that requires one.

Thanks again everyone.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

I think you have made sensible choices.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi Jason,

Just spotted you enquiry about glasses – I'd be happy with 2 or 3 pairs of glasses, the thought of bifocals makes me feel queasy for some reason!

No as short sighted, just a mere -4.5, so I can see a good 200mm! Quite handy for close work, but over the last ten years (40-50) loss of accomodation has been a shock. I had some wonderful reduced strength glasses for computer work, aimed at reducing headaches (which turned out to be high blood pressure!) They let me see from reading to ten feet away, but the far point dropped back to about two feet in the end. I once ended up driving in them and didn't realise for three miles! Sadly they got left at the Ruskin Glass Centre, of all places.

Last prescription gave me the same -4.5 I've had for the last forty years, plus a pair of reading glasses (I can't stand the thought of bifocals). These are too weak for most things though, so I either use no glasses at all for reading or I slide my glasses down my nose – I'm typing this with my normal specs about an inch from the eyeball – I'm blessed with a fair sized conk.

As you can guess, next time I want a pair half way between my 'normal' scrip and the 'reading glasses.

One nice thing was my new camera, which has dioptre adjustment in the viewfinder, although I swear by using the big screen its useful in bright light.

Neil

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Neil

"One nice thing was my new camera, which has dioptre adjustment in the viewfinder, although I swear by using the big screen its useful in bright light."

That's interesting. I "do" a lot of photography and my ever loving gave me a lovely "pocket" ( it would fit comfortably into a packet of fags) camera for my birthday. Wonderfully made – 20 Meg sensor, Zeiss lens etc. etc – the quality of image rivals that from my SLR. It has no viewfinder but does have a large screen with a brightness control which can be wound up on sunny days . I'm having terrible trouble getting used to it and really miss the viewfinder.!

Ah well I guess nothing in life is perfect.

Norman

[littlerickParticipant @littlerick]

Hi Corey…. just go for it mate… I just went out and got a Clarke CL500M…. Some people say there ok and some say they are crap, but you will get that no matter what you buy!

Just get one coz it looks cool or in the right colour to match your curtains…. Chuck some metal in and make a smaller bit of metal…. Have a look around the net, there are loads of things to give you ideas. Eventualy you will find something that you want to make…

Its at this point you realise you will need tools… lots of tools… Some can be made, but only after you got some!

Anyway, get a project idea and try to make it… collect the tools you need as you go, sooner or later you got all you need to do all you want….. or at least i hope so, coz thats what i'm trying to do!

Good luck with the hobby

Rick

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi

When you get your lathe. for a start you could make a tailstock sliding die holder like this . some turning drilling marking out etc for cutting metric threads BA whit ect various sizes . this would help you in future projects

Regards Nobby.

[Corey Lucas-DiversParticipant @coreylucas-divers20633]

Thanks, yeah I'm expecting to have to buy a lot of tooling and measuring equipment, not to mention coolant, cutting oil/lube and whatever other liquids and compounds I need to investigate. The biggest problem for me at the moment is health issues, which delay sorting out space in the garden and will probably cause me various other issues along the way, like with constructing the shed, but once I have everything in place, I expect to be able to spend quite a bit of relaxing time with my lathe.

Before I actually start making anything I think I'll just be experimenting with different tools and techniques, trying to gain some level of skill and feel for different materials. I'm sure after a while I'll get a little more adventurous.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Nobby on 09/10/2013 23:12:31:When you get your lathe. for a start you could make a tailstock sliding die holder like this .

Funny, that was my first project when I bought my first lathe (an Edgar ) and still using it 40 years later.

Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 10/10/2013 11:46:59 (to correct typing)

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 10/10/2013 11:48:51

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't underestimate the cost and time for building the shed. There are some other threads on this sort of subject.

Cheap sheds are made from a special timber from the sponge tree.
Cost in replacing the roof chipboard with plywood and better felt and if possible corrugated iron on that.
Inclrease eaves to keep rain off walls and get free gutters from skips. Do not let water run down walls just because it is a shed.
Redesign roof trusses to simplify fitting insulation.
Minimum of 2 inch EPS or 4 inch fibreglass insulation.
Vapour barrier over all six faces will also stop tiny draughts bringing in moisture.
Make your own floor. No normal shed floor handles machines and even reinforcing their floor is not worth it.
Think about security at build stage.
Garden sheds are often rather short. You may need to add 8-12 in to the walls which then means a door remake to avoid a step.
A dehumidifier is more valuable than heating. (a proper one not the cheapo peltier ones.)

[Geoff StevensonParticipant @geoffstevenson56049]

Hi Corey, If you're serious about model engineering, don't waste your money on so called "mini lathes" like the Unimat. They are worse than useless.. Check out something like this **LINK** I have one of these and it is brilliant.. The best money I ever spent.. Brand new and still in its grease.. The market is full of two bob tinies that are about as good as a hand drill. Not to mention an ocean of clapped out old machinery. My first lathe, when I was as poor as a church mouse, was an ancient Colchester Britannia gap bed. I think it was made when Bodicea was a girl.. Leather belt driven with an open back gear. That bit of crap was so worn I had to make up a set of individual shims that fitted under specific jaws to even get somewhere near centre.. I still have it.. God knows why.. It might be easy for me to say "buy the best you can get" but in the long run you will be far far better off.. And it will last a lifetime.. Cheers from downunder…

[Corey Lucas-DiversParticipant @coreylucas-divers20633]

Hi Geoff, that was actually the lathe I was thinking of getting, but someone elsewhere suggested the Sieg SC4 may be better, because although it's a little smaller it has a few extra features like power crossfeed and still very sturdy and accurate.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi Corey!

Welcome aboard!

A few disjointed comments.

SHED

Yes, it needs to well insulated, to prevent rust, not to mention cold feet!

Mine has 19mm cladding on 50mm frames and 12mm inner cladding with glassfibre in between. Roof the same. Floor is the weakpoint, 18mm ply on five 8 x 2inch bearers.

Shudder to think how much weight is in there now!

Being only 10'9" x 6'9" external, a 2Kw fan heater runs for about 10% of the time.

The walls floor and roof all came in via a 1 metre wide walkway, as did the 6cwt lathe and the 4cwt mill/drill.

But do install a weatherproof vent at high level, and one at low level, (preferably at opposite corners) to ensure that any moist air can escape.

Floor needs to be strong. Eventually, you will have a lot of weight in there.

Security:

You will have a lot of money tied up in there, so fit a good at least 5 lever lock, AND hinge bolts. (Once you have the lathe you can make these. Turn the head off a 1.5 inch x No10 woodscrew. Screw into the back of the door using a drill chuck, until about 0.75" protrudes. Close door to mark the post. Drill clearance hole for the "screw&quot

Repeat at least once. The hinge bolts will prevent anyone lifting out the door after removing the hinge pins.

My shop has no windows, a) security, b) I'd only have put shelves across them anyway.

It is AMAZING how stuff accumulates, Chucks, Faceplate, etc, sets of drills, taps, die holders, wiggler, centre finder, drill chucks, measuring equipment, and so on, not to mention the tools that you make for yourself.

Make sure that you have plenty of light.

Heating, only "dry" heaters, NO gas or paraffin heaters, they give off moisture, AND could gas you in a confines space.

I had a Myford ML7, but did not like what the Rodney milling attachment did to it, so bought a separate Mill/Drill.

Rigidity is very important!

(Wish that I had had cash and space for a bigger machine!)

My lathe, now ten years old is Far Eastern, with Norton box, and power cross feed, basically metric, but dual dialled, so I keep the half nuts engaged when thread cutting, even when metric. With tipped tools, it will take 0.1" cuts happily. But tips can be expensive, so start off with High Speed Steel, and a bench grinder, to learn how to grind tools.

DO JOIN a local Model Engineering Society. You will get a lot of advice and practical help from fellow members, not to mention inspiration, and some despair when you first see their results.

TAKE HEART! You will do likewise as you gain experience.

A fourway toolpost is essential. Have never found quick change tooling necessary.. Designed and made a fourway back toolpost, to carry chamfer, backchamfer, and part off tools. Parting off with a back toolpost is so much less problematic.

So look for a cross slide with Tee slots, if possible.

Someone once said to me, "You can do small work on a big lathe,but you can't do big work on a small lathe", so buy a larger lathe than you think you need now. You will find yourself getting more ambitious as time passes.

You will need measuring equipment. I would suggest, a digital calliper, magnetic base, 0.005" plunger clock, and 0.0005" finger clock (or the metric equivalents) for starters. You can expand as you find the need; and you will!.

You will make accessories for it (Mandrel Handle, retractable tool holders, tailstock die holders, etc) so do allow space for storage for extra tools that you either make or buy.

Don't try to do it all at once. Sort the shed to take the machinery, and then install to maximise effective use of the space. (LOTS of shelves)

Hope that this helps.

Good luck!

Howard

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