Colchester Master Mk1 lifting + moving advice

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

The route photo's are below. I realise it was hard for you chaps to advise without knowing the 'lie of the land".

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

That looks a lot better/easier than I'd envisaged.

In light of the wise comments from some other contributors I'm wondering whether it is a responsible thing to give advice at all here (other than 'hire some professionals' ) but we're all (I assume) adults here and your (ChooChoo) decisions are your own. On that basis I'll suggest that it looks to be as if it _might_ be possible, at your own risk, to do it all with a pallet truck as I outlined on the previous page.

After answers to the following questions I'll outline how I would approach the job. But first:

(a) Will you definitely have at least one able-bodied helper? Possible an experienced volunteer from the forum might come forward to assist if you disclose a rough location.

(b) Is the pallet it is on now solid and not rotted?

(c) Is the lathe secured to the pallet at all? If so, how? A picture minus the tarp would be helpful.

(d) How does the height of the step into the workshop compare to the height of the pallet?

(e) Does the workshop doorway have a sill above its internal floor level, and if so, could this be temporarily removed? If not removeable, what height is it above the internal floor?

(f) In the last picture, is there plenty of space 'behind the camera'? Asking because it looks as if the lathe will need to be swung round so as to enter 'end on' into the workshop. If there's not the space for it to approach the doors at a right angle, that could complicate things.

Edited By Bikepete on 01/11/2019 19:53:08

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

Posted by Bikepete on 01/11/2019 19:52:32:

After answers to the following questions I'll outline how I would approach the job. But first:

(a) Will you definitely have at least one able-bodied helper? Possible an experienced volunteer from the forum might come forward to assist if you disclose a rough location.

(b) Is the pallet it is on now solid and not rotted?

(c) Is the lathe secured to the pallet at all? If so, how? A picture minus the tarp would be helpful.

(d) How does the height of the step into the workshop compare to the height of the pallet?

(e) Does the workshop doorway have a sill above its internal floor level, and if so, could this be temporarily removed? If not removeable, what height is it above the internal floor?

(f) In the last picture, is there plenty of space 'behind the camera'? Asking because it looks as if the lathe will need to be swung round so as to enter 'end on' into the workshop. If there's not the space for it to approach the doors at a right angle, that could complicate things.

Edited By Bikepete on 01/11/2019 19:53:08

Many thanks for the direct Qs Pete. Here goes:

a) Yes I will have 2 others who are fit and mobile

b) Almost certainly yes – will double check in day light tomorrow

c) No. Just gravity. I do have a few decent webbing + ratchets in a box though. I don't know the correct way to ratchet it down to the pallet. Below photo is the lathe just before being covered up.

d) Approx 200mm

e) No the sill can't be removed. The sill's approx 30mm above concrete floor.

f) Yes there's a reasonable patio off the right edge of the 3rd photo. (The gravelled area beyond bottom edge leads onto lawn bordered by sleepers, so not feasible.)

Edited By choochoo_baloo on 01/11/2019 21:32:00

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

[peak4Participant @peak4]

The Colchester Student is apparently 625Kg with tailstock etc.

Since it's on a good solid pallet, it might save the need for my earlier suggestion of making wheels.
I think, if funds allow, a hired or borrowed pallet truck would be favourite, I'd suggest a wide type with a couple of ratchet straps to hold the lathe down. Plywood similar sheets would clearly be needed to span the gravel.
If you're careful and don't damage them, they might cut up for shelving, cabinets, worktops etc.

For my own worktops I actually used 47mm chipboard, rescued from a mezzanine floor. I then faced it with laminated flooring, to leave a nice clean surface; it's common to pick up just a couple of packs as end-of-line for very little money. Two or three layers of the plywood would re-use in a similar manner for a very sturdy bench, so the money/materials are not wasted; it wouldn't even matter much if a bit damaged.

The wider pallet trucks would be more stable for the trip to the workshop, and may well allow enough height to raise it up most of the way to the step.

What's at the other end of the workshop; anything to anchor a winch to? Maybe even add a Rawl anchor to the floor. Judicially placed, it may even have other uses. Depending on the final resting place for the lathe, might it even double up as one of the ground anchors for finally bolting it down?

Bill

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Now, having actually seen the item and terrain, it looks as though that lathe can be secured to the pallet and shifted with a pump (pallet) truck. A simple enough move, if that ‘extra bit’ on the side of the base is sturdy enough.

A typical shortage of information right from the beginning of the thread.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Looking at yuor photos,and with two helpers,a pallet truck would work,plus two or three sheets of 19 mm shuttering ply,I have a pallet truck at home it will move heavy loads,can be easily manouverd but it will not go up over steps ,the small rollers under the pallet forks are only about 3 inches in diameter so will no up and over the edge of 19 mm ply small wedge type ramps are required, cut some 4 x 2 timber about 2 ft long into a pair of long wedges to form a gentle ramp. the wheels near the handle are larger diameter a similar ramp but shorter would help, do not attempt to run a pallet truck over your paving stones, the small rollers will not roll over them ,just use plywood all the way,when the shed is reached a pallet truck should be able to lift the pallet level with the shed step,pack the pallet with timber to ensure the pallet is stable then using crow bars slip some 1.5 mm steel sheet under the lathe,ie between lathe and pallet for at least 18 inches then pull the lathe into the shed, ratchet straps with long handles make a good "winch' a rawl bolt in the concrete floor and the strap between the bolt and the lathe .a strap will pull for about 15 inches,unwind the strap and have another short pull, Now when securing top heavy loads with ratchet straps,never loop a strap right over the lathe and secure each end to the pallet, or the rings on the side or floor of a trailer,if the load tilts it will roll over within the loop of the strap, best way is a strap between the top of the lathe and the pallet,and then another strap from pallet to lathe on the other side the two separate strops will stop the load rolling.when using the pallet truck I have in the past secured the load to the pallet forks rather than the pallet, because pallets can slip on the steel forks. Go slowly and carefully,it will take a lot longer to lift a lathe upright if it falls off the pallet, anothe point always avoid wrapping a strop around the lathe bed and putting a load on the leadscrew and feed shaft,bent lead screws dont work!!! I have retrieved and awful lot of stationary engines,restored them,mounted them on trolleys ,and exhibited them plus the machines in my workshop,

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Looks like other people have pretty much outlined what I was going to suggest – basically use the pallet truck to move it over to the workshop door and lift to the step height, then slide the lathe off the pallet into the workshop.

Also some great tips already but a few more ideas for 'belt and braces':

Prep.

(1) Can that sheet metal around (I presume) the motor on the side of the lathe be removed? How about the motor? If they can relatively easily be removed, do!

(2) As suggested make sure you get the wider sort of pallet truck – 600ish mm wide instead of 400ish IIRC.

(3) As to strapping it down – looks from the photos as if you may have no choice but to do so over the chip tray (under the bed). As others have said it might be best to do this with the pallet truck in place, so that you can anchor it direct to the truck forks.

(4) I would also get a couple of lengths of e.g. 2×2 and screw or bolt these to the pallet, either side of the cabinet base, so they prevent the lathe from shifting sideways on the pallet. These will also make sure it pulls off straight later in the process. (though one will need removing before sliding the lathe off the pallet, if you can't remove the lump at the side of the lathe).

(5) The suggestion of ramps to ease rolling it up onto the plywood/OSB is good – get these made.

(6) When you've moved the lathe over to the workshop door you will need plenty of packing material to rest the pallet on so that the lathe can be slid off. The top of the pallet will need to be level with the top of the sill. Idealy you would place packing under the full width of the pallet, front, centre and rear. So you might need a decent supply of thin planks, say 6" wide and at least as long as the pallet is wide… some reasonably thin ones would be good so that you can get the height just right.

(7) Might be worth double checking that the pallet truck will actually lift high enough (a little higher than the final position will be needed, to ensure you have space to insert the packing). If not then after lifting and packing as high as it will go, packing could be placed either above its forks for their full length (best, IMO) or under its wheels.

(8) When the pallet and lathe are packed up in place in front of the workshop door as above I'd consider screwing some short lengths of 2×2 vertically to the sleeper, either side of the pallet, to stop it shifting sideways as you move the lathe off it. May as well screw them to the pallet too, to lock it in place.

(9) Someone got there first but I was also going to suggest an anchor point at the back of the workshop opposite the doorway to pull the lathe off the pallet from. Is this do-able? An expanding-type Rawlbolt would do the job, with an adaptor made of e.g. angle iron to provide a decent sized hole to hook to. Google 'caving hanger' for some ideas. You might get away with M6 but M8 thread size would be reassuringly solid.

(10) Then to actually pull the lathe ideally perhaps a lever-operated chain 'come-along', but failing that maybe a chain fall or some sort of winch. What have you? Also, identify ahead of time how you'll attach your pulling device to the lathe, ideally as close to ground level as possible.

The move

(1) Follow the great advice from earlier about one person being in charge at a time (but all can say 'stop' ).

(2) Place the pallet truck into the pallet in line with the lathe so the truck handle is at the headstock end – best to have the heaviest bit well between the wheels. Do some trial lifts and re-position if it seems not to be well balanced side to side.

(3) Lift no higher at any point than absolutely necessary to get the pallet clear of the ground.

(4) Might be an idea to practice moving it 6" or so then dropping it back down – dropping it down should be your reflex if anything starts moving too fast or whatever. Doing this should just stop everything safely and leave the pallet stable and secure on the ground.

(5) Absolutely drop it down onto the ground if you ever temporarily stop to e.g. move sheets of OSB around.

(6) Plan your OSB sheet placement so you end up with a full sheet right in front of the shed doorway, so that when you come to lifting and packing the pallet to height you're on a good stable base.

(7) When the lathe and pallet are in place at the workshop doorway, the tailstock end will already be filling much of the doorway. Will there be space for people to get past? Two of you will probably need to get inside for the 'pull' operation. Or maybe there's another entrance?

(8) This might be a good point for a cuppa!

Next post will cover sliding the lathe off the pallet and over the sill.

Edited By Bikepete on 03/11/2019 20:36:23

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Can you rake up the gravel to gain a bit of height, or a ramp. Maybe get some more bags of it as you will need them one day anyway.
The blue pallets actually belong to someone I believe, not the usual disposable ones, but still a bit wobbly. I would attach a triangle of 2×4 bracing between the pallet and the holes that seem to be available in the lathe stand.

[Peter Simpson 1Participant @petersimpson1]

I have just bought a Tom Senior M1 milling machine. It will be delivered on the back of a small crane lorry, hopefully into my garage. That's the easy bit. My workshop is located behind the garage.

First hurdle an 18" retaining wall.

Second hurdle 40 feet of gravel pathway.

No option but to dismantle the mill and take into the workshop in lumps.

Did the same with my Boxford ME10 lathe, It's worth it in the end after a lot or swearing.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Peter Simpson 1 on 03/11/2019 21:04:53:

I have just bought a Tom Senior M1 milling machine. It will be delivered on the back of a small crane lorry, hopefully into my garage. That's the easy bit. My workshop is located behind the garage.

First hurdle an 18" retaining wall.

Second hurdle 40 feet of gravel pathway.

No option but to dismantle the mill and take into the workshop in lumps.

Did the same with my Boxford ME10 lathe, It's worth it in the end after a lot or swearing.

Not quite such a simple move as for this thread. If I were doing the lathe move by myself, I would have simply split the lathe from the base and move the two parts separately with a pallet truck. If the access were suitable, I would be borrowing a mate’s teleporter to get the job done with it in one piece.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

How did you go with the move?

Or are you still in the due diligence stage?

[choochoo_balooParticipant @choochoo_baloo]

Posted by Hopper on 15/11/2019 09:18:29:

How did you go with the move?

Or are you still in the due diligence stage?

Still 'due diligence' Hopper. I agree professionals in theory, but if they're '"too busy" for the small domestic jobs, then I may not have that choice.

By pure chance when a tree surgeon was round last week, it turned out his helper had worked for a local machinery hauliers for 20 years (that I didn't know existed). He talked thorugh the move in theory.

Contacted the hauliers for a quote, giving his name, and they buggered me about a few times by not returning calls when they say they will. Bad manners hack me off. So they can whistle!

[Peter Simpson 1Participant @petersimpson1]

Well after a massive risk assessment and numerous cups of coffee. The mill was delivered on the back of a 7 ton wagon with a rear mounted crane. The driver was very helpful and we both managed to get the mill into my lean too which has a concrete floor. Using an engine hoist I stripped it down in to smaller lumps. Then after throwing the lifting regs out of the window SWMBO and myself used a sack barrow to navigate lumps of the mill around my garden and into the workshop. The column and the base are safely in the workshop, all of the other bits are going in between other jobs. Thanks for asking…Peter

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