Choosing a lathe

[Mark Harrison 6Participant @markharrison6]

Hi everyone and apologies if this has already been asked….

I'm looking to buy my first lathe and have been listening to people at my local club extolling the benefits of different makes of machine…. Seems to be basically split between the "get a Myford at all costs" camp even if that means getting a very old machine with the potential issues it may have or those that recon that the far eastern machines are perfectly good enough these days with the added benefit of having a suplier you can take any issue up with.

Due to space limits (not really tight but a bit limited) I had been looking at possibly getting one of the Warco lathes that can have a milling machine add on mounted on it – don't really have room for a separate mill…. I've got just enough room to fit something like a WM280V. I could possibly be OK with smaller but I'm just a little wary of buying a small cheap machine only to find I need to "upgrade" it very quickly..

Would like to hear what others have in the way of suggestions especially if there's machines that need to be a avoided!!!

[Mark Harrison 6Participant @markharrison6]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

"Get a Boxford at all costs""

DON'T get one of those lathes with a milling head attached to the headstock.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Bazyle on 07/10/2016 09:30:51:

DON'T get one of those lathes with a milling head attached to the headstock.

Yep, they arent brill, the bigger brother of my machine has one but the biggest problem with it is you can never get close enough to the workpiece with it.

Then again, if he really doesn't have the room and desperately wants to machine then we need to consider his circumstances. Maybe it would be a good idea as a last resort. 

Old machines can be great but then can also be a nightmare. Really throwing yourself in the deep end with repairs to do rather than cracking on turn/milling. 

Warco do a great machine that has a seperate motorised milling head which is attatched to the cross slide rather than the headstock, and a dovetailed movement to get close to a vise mounted on the Tee slot table. 

I'd be perusing their wares if i had my time again. 

Michael W 

Edited By Michael Walters on 07/10/2016 09:41:14

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Mark,

I guess it very much depends on what you want to do with your lathe. I've probably become notorious by now for my love for my Myford, it suits very well what I like to make – various model stationary engines and some forays into 3 1/2" locos. BUT, I knew the provenance of my second hand Myford from new. If I were starting again I would go for exactly the lathe you have suggested and I think the milling attachment which fits on the back of the bed would also be very satisfactory. If these types of lathes are good enough for JasonB then they are certainly good enough for me.

Some of Jason's work at the recent MEX:

HTH,

Rod

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Although a separate mill is the ideal situation the combined machines are not too bad a compromise particularly those that mount the mill column on the back of the bad rather than an extension of the headstock. You soon develope a method of working that saves having to constantly remove and refit the lathe topslide.

I started out on a little Unimat3 with the rear milling attachment and pushed it to its limit making a Stuart 10V, then I went upto a 200mm swing lathe and mounted the same U3 mill to the back of that and together with a vertical slide happily made a Stuart Beam engine and the Minnie TE you can see in my avitar.

The 280 lathes have more capacity than a Myford so with one of those you should quiet happily be able to make upto 7 1/4" locos and 2" traction engines and most of the parts for 3" TEs. That is if your intended use is model engineering. If you take a look in this ablum you will see some of the stuff that I make on my 280VF and a lot of those are quite large engines, the open crank IC engines typically have 9 to10" flywheels.

J

J

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I had a combi machine some years ago & it was fine for what I did with it apart from the milling aspect, very limited as to it's capability. I now have a Warco 250V-F ( power x feed ) & I have found it to be very satisfactory with what I have given it to do, after a few tweaks. One of the pitfalls with Chinese machinery is the assembly & finishing, along with the poor excuse for gib keys in the compound slide, I replaced mine.

If you look at the suppliers, Warco, Chester, Amadeal, Toolco, ( usual disc. ) & apart from the colour/badging differences they have a lot of similarities as the majority are made in the same factories & really only differ in what the buyer stipulates as to motors, gear/ belt driven etc.

Myfords, being the epitome of lathes command silly prices these days, whilst being at the Harrogate exhibition back in 2012 I had my eye on a superb Super 7b but when the financial director saw the price, emphatically said no!… but came back with 'for that amount you can get a lathe & a milling machine…result, as I had only intended to buy a lathe.

Quite a lot of members have Boxford's, ( TUC/CUD ) models, Harrison L5/140's, so you need to ask yourself… what is my budget, what room do I have, what do I intend making… & then add the cost of start up tooling ( unless you manage to get a boxful of tooling with any second hand machine ) 'cos believe you me it's frightening what you end up spending on tooling & accessories… . at the end of the day, as the cliché goes … 'you get what you pay for'… many forum members will cast their own opinions no doubt so look them through & you'll come to your own decision, never the less, good hunting & enjoy .

George.

[Old ElanParticipant @oldelan]

With a name like Harrison, I would have thought it was obvious which to get……!

If I wasn't a Boxford man that's what I would go for.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

I currently have a WM 250 which I am happy with. As George says many suppliers offer similar. Mine was a replacement for a clapped out Myford. It would have cost more to fix up the Myford than the cost of the new lathe and that was a few years ago. If I were buying today I would go the same route and opt for the Chinese lathe from new rather than take a chance with a second hand job. Unless you are really clued up on what to look for second hand can be a minefield.

I would definitely want power cross-feed which my current lathe does not have. The other choice I would make is to go for a lathe with 3 phaase motor and VFD rather than the DC brushed motor that mine has.

I have a review of my lathe **HERE** although it is getting a bit long in the tooth now. Can't advise on the bolt on mill as I have a seperate WM 14, I think the bolt on job from Warco is basically the WM 16 column and head. Many suppliers of the mill now do a belt and brushless motor option, might be worth checking if this is available for the bolt on.

John

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

I had an old Myford Super 7 (a 1953, one of the very first)

It didn't have power cross feed and the clutch was problematic, in addition, the glass sight oiler could very, very easily allow dirt to be washed into the spindle nose bearing (luckily, mine had been cared for). The clutch I just had to live with as Myford soon completely redesigned it and spares aren't available (I didn't have the skills/confidence back then to reliably attempt to make new parts, although they were simple enough).

What I didn't appreciate, is that it's bed was like new and capable of easily making very accurate parts!!

So it strikes me, that the Myford 7 wasn't the golden wonder it was made out to be, and its "aura" made parts expensive, however it could cut though some serious steel, easily knocking 5-7mm off the diameter of a 50mm high carbon steel in a single pass without making a sound or vibration, it could be talked over while doing it) – if you tried that with a far eastern machine, If the tool post didn't tear away and the something in the drive didn't shatter, I would expect the bed to snap at the headstock (seriously) – I would guess taking 2-3mm off the diameter of a similar steel would be the limit. But what's the rush.

What matters is not what make/model you buy, it's what sort of condition its in. With the tool post and topside locked, will it turn parallel over 100mm by advancing the saddle using power feed, criteria number one for me, and not a straight forward answer, since it will have to be sat levelled, maybe have its tailstock feet shimmed to remove any twist in the bed and generally be in fine fettle to achieve this.

Second are it's spindle bearings in good condition, and if they're not, can they be easily replaced? Myford ML7's have white metal bearings, which cannot be replaced, you need to upgrade to a hardened spindle and phosphor bronze bearings (which is around £300-£500 for the parts alone if you can find someone who has one!) – other things, are more easily adjusted/replaced so long as the bed is straight and spindle points in the right direction!

If I were to do it all again, I would recommend to myself, to go and buy a new simple cheap lathe that will do screw cutting and learn how to get it setup and turning parallel, learn how to align the tailstock and get the hang of general machining operations etc.
If you decide it's not for you, you'll hardly lose a penny in value if you look after it! They cost £400-700 new from SPGtools/Chester Hobby Store/Warco/Amadeal/ArcEuroTrade, Amadeal had put a package together which included all the basic tools you'll need to make something to a tolerance, it came with cutting tools, measuring tools, and I think the magnet bases and dial indicators that you'll need to ensure the lathe is turning true and make the required adjustments

– Just to add to that, depending on what milling you need to do, a vertical slide for the lathe might cover all angle, and with a small bench top pillar drill you could be well on your way to easily creating whatever models you might want?

Edited By Russ B on 07/10/2016 14:12:02

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The best bet for some one new to this area is the 280 or larger especially from Warco as the accuracy checks cover people for odd lemons.

Myfords in good order are good lathes. The problem is that a fair few wont be in good order and fixing them up to the state that they originally were is beyond the ability of most people. A lot of this is down to the style of headstock bearings they use. The bed style is also known to be one that doesn't tolerate wear well. These are facts not fiction and why these arrangements aren't generally used and haven't been for a long time.

Boxford's are well designed lathes – past the point of many actually. They do wear but apart from worn headstock bearings which can be replaced wear within reason only changes the accuracy of the lathe – bed wear causes them to turn a taper rather than pretty parallel. Most models are under drive and don't have a T slotted cross slide so a vertical slide can't be used for milling. The ME10's do have this often along with screw cutting gearboxes and power feeds. No chance of attaching a milling head to the back of one. Condition varies just like all used lathes. I looked at an ME10A that's in the classified on here a short while ago. Headstock bearings fine as far as I could tell. Enough bed wear to cause it to turn several thou taper over a couple of inches. The electrics are "usable" but need sorting out. I suspect it may be a 3 phase motor using a capacitor to drive from 240v. A good buy for some one considering the price and gear that comes with it providing they don't mind the taper. I looked because in some ways I would prefer an ME10A rather than the older ME10 I have. Mine has negligible bed wear but as some one who owned it didn't adjust the head stock bearing when needed it does turn a few tenths taper. The bearings have worn a touch oval.

The early new model Boxfords can be affordable. Bit of a mine field too. They need checking carefully. I found one that couldn't be run and out of curiosity engaged screw cutting and put a bit of pressure on the saddle wheel and the screw cutting just jumped out – US leadscrew nut. Ex college and probably caused by some on jamming the screw cutting nut in repeatedly without looking at the screw cutting indicator. Actually as they will cut metric and imperial they may need feeling in carefully/ Some models need far more gears to cut a range of threads than others too.

This is the joy of used lathes. It's ok looking if they are checked over carefully and people are prepared to be disappointed and walk away. Then there is the joy of imperial or metric. Many model designs are in imperial. Machines can produce either really with some complications in respect to screw cutting.

Big cuts – well with a correctly ground HSS tool both Rod and Jason have posted shots of their lathe taking very large cuts, more than Russ mentions. Jason admits that he mostly uses his lathe in the low speed mode to gain torque. That area is the problem with electronically variable speed control. Belts and gears do gain torque at the cutter when the speed is reduced – electronic stuff just keeps it similar. From one post I think Warco may have changed the range that the low speed mode covers to help with screw cutting but at the expense of it's previous top speed in that range. I think Warco also offer a belt drive model and a small gear head. Changing speed on the belt drive one is probably a bit of a pain. It's easy on Myfords and Boxford ME10's and more trouble on the Boxford under drive lathes – I think, I've never used one. I personally could be tempted by the small gearhead but don't really need it. That gives cutting torque and easy speed change.

Comment about depth of cut don't mean much really. My record due to having to do it was just short of 3/4" deep on a Peatol / Taig in mild steel without any special tool grinding other than the angle it cut but the feed rate was rather fine.

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 07/10/2016 15:06:41

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Michael Walters on 07/10/2016 09:35:56:

I'd be perusing their wares if i had my time again.

Bloody hell. Are you not long for this world? Will this early departure be planned, accidental or medical? We should be told.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Posted by Muzzer on 07/10/2016 17:11:01:

Posted by Michael Walters on 07/10/2016 09:35:56:

I'd be perusing their wares if i had my time again.

Bloody hell. Are you not long for this world? Will this early departure be planned, accidental or medical? We should be told.

Having been sucked in on that type Michael I sold mine. Took a little while as I was very honest about it. Mine was one of the very early ones and I believe that the newer models may be more precisely made. The headstock and tailstock alignment on mine was much worse than bad.

John

–

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The more I see of what people do, the more I realise it's the person and their approach/attitude to machining that matters more than the machine.

I think in many ways choosing a lathe is as much about choosing your 'workshop companion' as a mater of hard facts and figures.

Despite what is often said, the fettling and adjustment to get the best out of a Far Eastern lathe is generally less than required to restore a worn out 'classic'. That said, with most Far Eastern Lathes or decent second hand machine you can just switch on and use them, it will always pay to spend some time on setting up any machine tool.

If you can find a good quality large lathe in good condition for a fair price, you won't regret it. Equally a far eastern machine suited to the work you want to do is unlikely to leave you feeling ripped off now as QC is now much better than it was.

If there is one used machine that probably represents the best general purpose machine for model engineering though, it's the Boxford AUD. Not much bigger than a Myford, more modern and as it's a top-end 'teaching lathe' it has all the features (e.g. gearbox, power cross feed) you might want.

Neil

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Mark,

Many good lathes have been recommended, I have a HBM290 lathe with a 3-phase motor and a VFD, the lathe has been used for several years now without any problems. I don't have the milling attachment, I have a separate milling machine. The 290 covers most of the work I do, as others have said, it depends on what kind of work you intend to do. Good luck with your purchase.

Thor

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Muzzer on 07/10/2016 17:11:01:

Posted by Michael Walters on 07/10/2016 09:35:56:

I'd be perusing their wares if i had my time again.

Bloody hell. Are you not long for this world? Will this early departure be planned, accidental or medical? We should be told.

It's not that drastic! but to be honest with you i'm not a very optimistic person, i have a couple of health conditions that probably reduce my chances of reaching old age significantly but i basically don't live in the expectation i'd hit 30 in one piece(currently..24 and a bit)! And saving for a pension? just seems like a bad joke.Its tough out there.

Back to the lathe, i agree with what Neil said that you adapt to what you've got (I just bought his mini lathe book recently and look forward to garnering the lost arts) and accept some of the short comings eventually and as for John, i think you hit a bit of bad luck if you got it in the 90's, that seems to be when the quality took a hit, probably realized westerners were harder to cater for than they first thought! I do remember Ajax being one of the first companies to take a punt into the foreign machine trade?

Michael W

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

It came from Graham Engineering Michael. From what I have seen of the newer models they still have one problem. When I bought mine they decided to make it 20" between centres rather than 18 by chopping the nose of the tailstock down. It was impossible to turn right up to a centre without a morse extension socket. One very good factor about the machine was that it was made of low tensile cast iron.

Personally if not happy with a machine or something better is on offer I bite the bullet and sell it and change. Often prices have escalated so much that they sell for more than I paid for them. Doesn't cover inflation of course but helps make it a more pleasant experience.

I'm pretty happy with what I have but it doesn't stop me looking at other lathes now and again. Miller is more of a space problem and I doubt if I can better my Dore Westbury in this area. I do look at them now and again but it's surprising how often larger machines wont cover the same area. It's even possible to machine past the sides of the table if the head is re positioned. One day I may finally figure out a method of setting the angle of the head easily. The motor is off centre on mine to reduce the front to back room it needs so I use a jack screw lash up to set it. Ok providing the head stays were it is.

John

–

John

–

[Mark Harrison 6Participant @markharrison6]

Many thanks to everyone for the comments so far. Much appreciated

[Author]

Posts