Choice of lathe

[Richard Stevenson 1Participant @richardstevenson1]

Hiya peeps, i'm looking at getting a lathe , which because i don't have a nice concrete floor in my shed it has to be a 'benchtop' sort. I have been looking at Myfords on a well known auction site for a while and they seem to be a fairly regular sort of price. But for a similar price i can buy a new Warco or Chester, which hasn't had 50 odd years of (mis) use, what do others think ? Further to which am i likely to run into any problems with it not being in a nice warm garage, i see on a different forum here that some electrical probs arose on a Chester, is this common. Any ideas/tips would be much appreciated, maybe on the back of a £20 note !!!!!!!!!! Have Fun Rich

[Richard Stevenson 1Participant @richardstevenson1]

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Hi Richard, I had to downsize my machine tools when I emigrated from the UK and ended up ( quite at random really, a friend had it for sale ) with an Emco Compact 5 – it's a good contender for a benchtop lathe. It's horribly undersized for my own purposes, but is really accurate when used within it's capabilities.

You could get a medium sized lathe with a stand – the flooring won't really matter then. I'll probably get lynched for saying this but the Myford is maybe the most over priced and over rated lathe around. My personal preference would be for a Boxford, the last lathe I used to own.

I'm pretty cynical about Chinese machine tools. I hate them, but I own a Sieg X2 mill because it's the only game in town at the size and price point.

You WILL end up fighting a battle against rust 😀 I solved that by moving to a place that has a climate similar to Death Valley 😀

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Hi, Welcome to the forum.

Have you read all the other threads about lathe choice? You will see from them that there are a number of things you need to consider first – like what you plan to do with it so we can give you better advice.

Having just been reading comments about condensation on another site I suggest you see about improving your shed first before you have big machines to move around. If a concreste floor is not possible is it too late to put down a load of gravel topped with pain paving stones. Then where the lathe will be massively beef up the floor joists. Then insulate. Then line with plastic sheet with all joints taped and fit a proper door and window that is airtight. A dehumidifier will then keep it dry without draughts bringing in more moist air.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Richard, I don't agree with Siddley re Myford, yes they can be pricey but they are one of the best small machines around. I have both a Super 7 and an Emco Maximat 11. the Myford is well over 30 years old and has been in constant use and its still good for 0.0005" tolerance.

The main thing is make sure anything you buy has not been ill used and don't buy unseen on an auction site–things always look better in the photo's than they are!

One advantage of Myford is the vast array of attachments and info available for these machines, there are of course many other makes that will serve you well and even the latest far east machines are not too bad and many people turn out excellent work using them. My personal choice would always be British or European made.

It sounds as though your workshop is to be a wooden building? best way is to insulate well with Kingspan or similar and don't forget the floor. Then some form of low heating will help keep rust at bay.

John

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Richard

I don't have a Myford but would support JohnF's comment about choosing a lathe where tooling and accessories are readily available

When I was in your position in 2009 I wrestled with the same dilemma. In the end I bought a big old lathe which, years later and further down the path of experience, I can now find problems with as regards accuracy and usability. I can overcome these but it would be better if lathe steadies and spare parts were readily available

To replace this with a new lathe at a price I would be happy to pay means I would be looking at Warco, Chester or Amadeal

Best of luck

John

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I knew no-one would agree with me about Myfords 😀

If you do buy a new chinese lathe Rich then I think it's quite important to choose a company with good after sales service, not a 'box shifter' – I found Chester UK to be pretty decent people to deal with

[Stephen BensonParticipant @stephenbenson75261]

I agree Myford's are over rated and over priced especially when compared to Boxford or South Bend, I had a Chester Conquest for a while but spent more time modifying it and fidderling with it rather than turning anything useful. When looking at Boxford and South Bend lathes go for the model B or A the C really is quite a low spec.

PS I have used a Myford S7 lathe at work and found it quite a frustrating experience

[SteveWParticipant @stevew54046]

I had the same problem. Rather than buying a Myford that had been 'pre-owned' and of dubious pedigree I bought a new Warco 250. It came with all the necessary to get started including 3/4 jaw chucks a complete set of tools. I think the tools and equipment are important. Not all Myfords come with everything and some with nothing as owners try and extract the maximum cash by selling off all the bits.

So far it is better (more accurate) than I am. Maybe I'll find its weaknesses but it has got me hooked.

I would loved to have been able to have a heavier lathe but circumstances (mainly room) dictate this is the biggest I can house.

Steve W

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

My Warco WM280 VF has proved to be all that I hoped and some more. I have no problem with Chinese lathes, much depends on the demands for quality that the importer makes. The Chinese are excellent engineers in their own right.

I also have a Boxford but that is because it came quite cheaply and I already have a lot of equipment for it from a previous model that I had which was badly damaged in a fire. It was a model C but I have an apron with the cross slide drive which is now fitted converting it to a B.

Just my experiences,

Best regards

T

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I'm surprisingly content with my continually modified mini-lathe but when I win the lottery I'll get a Boxford AUD or a Colchester.

That said, I have ever heard an opinion on the Italian Centriani lathes advertised in MEW every month. They look gorgeous, and with inverter drive and a norton gearbox and gap bed…

I have never thought of Italy as having the north/eastern European reputation for engineering, but they seem to be associated with Emco. Any thoughts?

Neil

[Richard Stevenson 1Participant @richardstevenson1]

Thanks to all of your advice, much to deliberate on before crunch time arrives. I know there is a general feeling of 'illwill' towards far eastern machinery, i've heard it from other scources, but i remember years ago when the Japanese motorcycles and cars started to arrive here and the comments made then ……. the rest as they say is history. The Chinese now seem to be immitating them. Anyway, when i finally get up and running i'll post on here. Just as an addition, i'm considering making a trip down to Ally Pally in the new year, do you get 'deals' at these shows, like we do at some of the m/cycle shows ?? Thanks again Rich

[joegibParticipant @joegib]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 21/11/2012 20:57:52:

I have never thought of Italy as having the north/eastern European reputation for engineering, but they seem to be associated with Emco. Any thoughts?

Neil

What about Ferrrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, etc? What about Ducati and Moto Guzzi motorcycles? Looking at the Lathes UK site, there are/were quite a few Italian machine tool makers. One internationally well-respected lathe manufacturer is Graziano SAG. The Italians also build fine ships. Indeed, it was a crying shame that we had to sink'em in WWII. And their matelots have a distressing tendency to drive them into islands, but you can't blame the engineers for that. It's also worth noting that Cunard's latest 'Queen Elizabeth' was built in Italy. I reckon the Italians know a bit about engineering.

I haven't seen any reviews of the Ceriani machines either. I suppose it's in their favour that they're distributed by Pro Machine Tools Ltd who seem only to handle quality European stuff. That firm's always very coy about pricing, though. Maybe they operate on the old snob principle that if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it!

Joe

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by joegib on 22/11/2012 09:53:47:

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 21/11/2012 20:57:52:

I have never thought of Italy as having the north/eastern European reputation for engineering, but they seem to be associated with Emco. Any thoughts?

Neil.

…………………………..

I haven't seen any reviews of the Ceriani machines either. I suppose it's in their favour that they're distributed by Pro Machine Tools Ltd who seem only to handle quality European stuff. That firm's always very coy about pricing, though. Maybe they operate on the old snob principle that if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it!

Joe

Hi,

I beleive that Chester sell Ceriani machines as well as their Chinese range. They are also coy about the prices but they used to quote them. Perhaps it's to do with the Italy/Euro problems?

Regards

T

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

There is a company in Christchurch NZ, that restores vintage, and classic cars, our vintage machinery club visited them a few years ago. They were restoring a Ferrari, and one of the mechanics comented that they(Ferrari) should have stuck with building tractors, the car was nice on the outside, but OH the inside, what a mess, that changed as the car was rebuilt. It then won prizes in the USA, and valued at $US 2.5 million. But the engine was a different story, and I imagine their machine tools would be similar high quality. Ian S C

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I did see some prices for Ceriani lathes a while back – the company name caught my eye because they used to make forks for motorcycles. I can't remember the exact figures but they were pretty hair raising.

My dislike of Chinese machine tools is a personal thing – I used machine tools as a source of income and quickly decided cheap Chinese machines were false economy after being let down so many times.

Mechanically they can be just about 'OK' if you rebuild them how they should have been put together in the first place, but regarding motors and electronics you are in the lap of the gods – a specialist motor rebuilder told me that in his opinion the failed motor ( from a very popular machine sold by a famous 'box-shifter' company ) I brought to him had actually been designed so it was impossible to repair.

Then there are design issues like poor ergonomics, speed ranges which don't go low enough, corners cut everywhere. As I say though – my opinion.

The Sieg X2 I bought last year ( through gritted teeth ) hasn't failed yet, but I trust it as far as I can throw it. The instruction manual was hilarious, I don't think it would be possible to figure it out at all unless you already knew how to use a mill. The mill head is referred to as the 'fuselage' for example

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

As a time served Rolls Royce coachbuilder who has owned my own body shop, and worked for a few main dealers as body shop manager, i have worked on ALL of the above mentioned italian cars and i can tell you that the bodywork on all of them is ATROCIOUS. Do'nt know about their lathes though !!!

Cheers Derek

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by Richard Stevenson 1 on 22/11/2012 05:48:45:

Thanks to all of your advice, much to deliberate on before crunch time arrives. I know there is a general feeling of 'illwill' towards far eastern machinery,

I bear no ill will against eastern machinery…I've a Sieg C6 and I've enjoyed it and modified it and enjoyed it even more.

Whatever lathe you do buy – work out the cost of getting the tooling. It's easy to spend the cost of say a Sieg lathe in tooling and all the workholding, measuring clamping sort of things. If you buy a secondhand lathe, take stock of the tooling that's included or not.

[Dave Morris 1Participant @davemorris1]

Hi Richard,

I love the old Myford brand, I don’t think they are overpriced but they were over engineered, they were industrial quality.

I have a long bed super 7 and use a ML7 at work regularly, but as you say buying the right one is an issue but at least you can refurbish them.

The bargains are on the real auction sites, take a look at this super 7 **LINK** I bet the next time this comes up for sale it looks like new!

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I've never drived a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, but the one time I drove a Porsche it handled and felt more like one of Ferdinand's other designs – the Tiger Tank!

Best two drives I have ever owned were a pre-turbo new model RX7 and the old style Honda Integra, a little know car that looked like a Rover 400 but did not drive like one or have its 'reliability' either.

OK, both Japanes, not Chinese, but as has been said they are catching up fast.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The trend over the last 50 years in model engineering has been to move from 3&1/2 to 5 now 7&1/4 engines and simillarly up in traction engines. This has made the lighter lathes that coped perfectly well before now seem a bit flimsy. Also as pockets got deeper more space (bigger sheds) have been built and filled with milling machines etc reducing the need for a versatile single lathe.

[Stephen BensonParticipant @stephenbenson75261]

Posted by Dave Morris 1 on 22/11/2012 23:30:12:

The bargains are on the real auction sites, take a look at this super 7 **LINK** I bet the next time this comes up for sale it looks like new!

And that is the problem it will be an old worn out lathe with nice shiny paint, I seen this happen to actual quality lathes like Schaublin, Boley, Pultra and Leinen

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Hi all,

Below is a text extract and a picture from my one of my Toolmaker's textbook's from 1953.

The book clearly sets out what equipment etc. would normally be found in the toolroom and I was delighted to see the Myford ML7 noted as an essential toolroom lathe.

Note the statement in the text that it is "designed for heavy duty"

I do appreciate that in those days, "heavy duty" in the toolroom would have been a lot different than "heavy duty" on the production line.

It says a lot about how much it was favoured in the early 1950's as it is even now.

Len. P.

[Dave Morris 1Participant @davemorris1]

Hi,

I agree that you could just paint it and sell it on for a quick buck but the design of the Myford is such that they can be refurbished back to as new geometry fairly easily.

I appreciate that if you are not an engineer by trade or you don’t have access to the necessary machinery it would be an issue but it’s the quality of the parts and castings that I believe has maintained the value of the Myfords over the years.

I have nothing against the eastern machines, I have run a Taiwanese Hardinge (Bridgeport) vmc for 7 years and it's not missed a beat, and it cost 3K less in 2005 than an Interact 4 cost in 1986, BUT will it last a long? I'm in a tool room and we look after our m/c's so only time will tell.

I personally feel that the Myfords came from a time when quality was paramount and Britain lead the way .

Dave

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I don't think anyone would argue that the Myford is poorly designed or made, quite the opposite.

My issue would be the price. There are many lathes from the same golden era of British machine tools which are just as good yet cost half as much for a similar spec and condition.

[Author]

Posts