Chinese lathes

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Hi Lathejack,

The great pictures in your album and their notes say so much, especially the loud and clear message :-

 

CAVEAT EMPTOR or “LET THE BUYER BEWARE”.

 

Having been caught once when I bought a Chinese mill-drill, I can sympathise with your finding.

 

I can still hear the grating crunch of sand in one of the cast iron bearings.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Regards,

 

Sam

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Lathe

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Lathejack, send a lot of pictures and a description at a bad work on the lathe produced by factory in China. Hope they will improve the quality of the work on the lathes..
Your lathe are produced by Sieg, send to this anout your complains: http://www.siegind.com/
 
You can not rely on the workers in China will do it a good job..
As rule i will take a inspection and wash all dirt/sand etc and oil/grease all moving parts before use. I did with my Sieg lathe and i am satisfied to use a cleaned and adjusted lathe
Edited By Jens Eirik Skogstad on 21/11/2010 09:58:04

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 19:20:06

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

What a load of expletive deleted.

this lathe model IS NOT produced by SIEG

 

If you can’t get your facts right just don’t bother posting.

It only makes you look a expletive deleted.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 11:36:25

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

Remember the Sale of Goods act 1979. Your quarrel is with your suppliers, who I know from experience, will ‘jump through hoops’ to fix problems. Mine was caused by a ‘pale pink pestilence paper’ (or the curse of Dr Fu Manchu). The cause was that I did not strip that part of the machine right down during commissioning and I missed it.. You should never assume that any machine (lathe, mill, drill etc will run ‘straight from the box’!

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/11/2010 11:20:10:

this lathe model IS NOT produced by SIEG

 

If you can’t get your facts right just don’t bother posting.

It only makes you look a expletive deleted.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 11:36:25

 In official SIEG site are not showing all lathes..

 

SIEG are making the lathes, 3 in one lathe etc..  for Grizzly, Warco, Colcester ( for small lathe) and some copy of Emco lathe to example Unimat 3.

 

If you are carefully to read at the user manual and study each parts on the lathe of difference name and you will learn out they are produced from same factory SIEG.

 

The basis is same the lathe, difference equipment is mounted around the lathe with the agreements of suppliers who will sell lathes under their brand such as Warco, Colcester, Grizzly..

 

See at the lathe factory here: 

This is a short URL.

There is a chain above the editor when posting.

Click chain and paste link into box. 

Then click target and select new window

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 19:18:04

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I do beleive that John has been to the Sieg factory as well as many of the other far eastern lathe producers so He does have first hand knowledge of this not just something he has read on the web.

 

It could well have been made By Weiss but thats just speculation on my part as they do make a lathe just like it or one of several other makers

 

 

 

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 21/11/2010 16:54:42

Edited By JasonB on 21/11/2010 16:55:28

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Jens Eirik Skogstad on 21/11/2010 15:59:43:

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/11/2010 11:20:10:

this lathe model IS NOT produced by SIEG

 

If you can’t get your facts right just don’t bother posting.

It only makes you look a expletive deleted.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 11:36:25

 In official SIEG site are not showing all lathes..

 

SIEG are making the lathes, 3 in one lathe etc..  for Grizzly, Warco, Colchester ( for small lathe) and some copy of Emco lathe to example Unimat 3.

 

Edited By Jens Eirik Skogstad on 21/11/2010 16:11:01

 

 COLCHESTER made by Sieg ?????????

 

What are you smoking ????????????????

 

John S.

 

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 19:26:32

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Jens can you edit your posts as once again your long urls are affecting the page width.

 

Jason

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/11/2010 18:03:34:

Posted by Jens Eirik Skogstad on 21/11/2010 15:59:43:

Posted by John Stevenson on 21/11/2010 11:20:10:

this lathe model IS NOT produced by SIEG
 
If you can’t get your facts right just don’t bother posting.

It only makes you look a expletive deleted.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 11:36:25

 In official SIEG site are not showing all lathes..
 
SIEG are making the lathes, 3 in one lathe etc..  for Grizzly, Warco, Colchester ( for small lathe) and some copy of Emco lathe to example Unimat 3.
 

Edited By Jens Eirik Skogstad on 21/11/2010 16:11:01

 
 COLCHESTER made by Sieg ?????????

 
 
John S.

 

 

 Excuse me, this was wrong name, i mean Chester …
 
See this link of difference versions of lathe from same factory.. Short link John..

“What are you smoking ????????????????”
 
Profanities is not acceptable in the forum, everyone can be wrong in that post.

 

Edited By David Clark 1 on 21/11/2010 19:24:10

[Jens Eirik Skogstad 1Participant @jenseirikskogstad1]

JasonB, here are this link you mentioned?

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Sieg/Sieg.htm

 

Thank you for the link of the Weiss factory, Warco has both lathes from SIEG and Weiss depending on which size of lathe are made.

 

First i saw was the label in the end of the lathe “Induction hardened bedways“, and assumed that it was made by SIEG since i has same label at my SIEG lathe.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Jens Eirik Skogstad on 21/11/2010 19:21:28

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I rest my case.

 

John S.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

If you must paste from Word, please use the button in the editor with the blue W on it.

regards David

 

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Can I chuck in a complaint as well?

 

It would have been very handy for whoever put up the original photo to have explained a bit more about what was going on, and where the other photos were. It took me quite a bit of hunting to find a reference to Lathedog on which I could click to get to his profile etc, and then by accident I discovered the other photos.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

 

ps. Incidently, I have never had any problems caused by overlong URL’s, but then I do use Firefox, anI noticesomeone else has made a similar comment.

 

Also, I quite agree that there is no need for insults and profanities. Tell people they are wrong by all means, and give them the proof, but please do it politely.

 

 

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

I use Firefox with service pack 3 (2 previously) as well as a MacBook running Snow Leopard OS and do get the long URL problem

 

It is a problem with the site software not individual computers.  We still need a sticky telling folks how to post short URLs (and open a new page at the same time instead of leaving this one).  A note on it how to paste from Word and other regular actions should also be included for newbies otherwise these problems will keep repeating ad nauseum.

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 21/11/2010 21:53:04

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Back to that lathe again…

I have heard many stories about this kind of problems, but thought ‘ yes, many years ago….but not now’. And when I wrote about a really horrible milling machine from W…-oops, don’t mention names…some months ago nobody seemed to believe me.

This one is even worse…

Thanks, Lathejack, for showing the truth. I wonder what Mr. Warren would have to say. You get what you pay for, perhaps.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Of course you get what you pay for.

 

Take the Myford,  50 year old design and base price is about £7,500 with no equipment.

 

Eight years ago I wanted a new lathe and was fed up of the rubbish secondhand tat offered by dealers and auctions. I rang Colchester to see how much a Triumph 2000 was and was quoted £12,800 with chucks.

 

I finished up buying a brand new TOS for £5,400 with all extras.

It’s been an ace machine, two small breakdowns in those 8 years for a machine in daily work.

 

What would happen if there were no small imports ? Same as what happened to me when I started out, pay though the nose for over priced, worn out equipment that there was a waiting list for. If it hadn’t been for cheap imports then many in this game would not have managed to get started instead having to put off because they couldn’t afford it or having to make do with just a lathe that they could afford.

 

Now that Warco lathe in the picture is close to my TOS which now costs about £8,000

 

So why if the original poster want a machine that works out the box buy one of these?

Or is he expecting a Rolls Royce at a Lada price.

 

There is a reason these imports cost as little as they do, yes I know  some don’t think the cost paid is a paltry amount but it is given that no ‘Brand’ manufacturer can sell at this price.

 

John S.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

It would be interesting to hear from Lathejack at some point in this thread – did he raise his issues/concerns with Warco? and how did they respond?

 

I too own a GH1330. I agree with John, these are not Rolls Royce machines, but then I think the comparison to a Lada a little harsh .

 

I bought my machine as an ex demo machine and have so far found nothing to complain about, yes these machines are built to a price but they are also very functional and in careful hands are capable of reasonably accurate and acceptable work. I’ve made all the cylinders for a Whittle V8 on this machine and also machined the gear blanks for a 4″ Ruston Proctor SD, all with a very acceptable degree of accuracy and repeatability.

I did remove the leadscrew guards as these prevent the full specified travel being achieved. The chuck guard on mine was also removed as it prevents the 12″ faceplate being fitted, this is one issue I have raised with Warco and apparently this is (or has already been) addressed on newer machines, (mine is of 2004 vintage) .

I have also added a large chip guard which travels with the saddle, this allows the use of flood coolant without getting a coolant shower and keeps the flying chips at bay, I would strongly recommend this for any lathe user.

 

These import machines are quite satisfactory for the majority of hobby users, and with careful use and maintenance will produce fine work for a long time. We are often too quick to criticise, and comment such as made earlier regarding chinese workmanship should be carefully guarded against. There is no real need or place for this kind of offensive comment in these forums. I also object to any form of bad language and find that churlish and unncessary.

 

I now retire from my soapbox

Edited By CoalBurner on 21/11/2010 23:54:31

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Having been responsible for hitting a very obvious raw nerve, when I picked up on Lathejack’s photographs, I could see that they were telling the truth admirably.

So, I have a couple of comments to add.

Firstly, how about directing expletives towards the junk on offer, rather than towards your fellow ME members? I have had lots of opportunities to curse at poor quality, so to repeat my warning for beginners – BUYER BEWARE.

If you don’t know how, finding Lathejack’s great photographs is easy. As of Monday 22/11/10 11am, fifteen are currently top of the `Albums’ list. Three steps down, and there are four more pictures. Both albums are titled Chinese torture. Click on Albums on the green band across the top of the ME page.

For many reasons, I shall never buy another machine wherever they are made. But, is the gist of these messages that – if you buy cheap it becomes mandatory to do a complete strip down?

As for `jumping through hoops’, I doubt whether our local machine-tool trader would even know (or care) what a hoop was, let alone be prepared to jump through one.

I would hope that this information (especially with the likes of Lathejack’s photographs and clear documentation), provides a powerful message for those with little or no knowledge of what to expect, but who are about to venture into our wonderful hobby.

Good show, Lathejack.

As a foot note. I know that local toolmakers are sending drawings into Asia, on the basis that what they get back will have to be rectified and finished off to a higher standard.

 

What a pity!!! 

Regards to all,

Sam

Edited By Sam Stones on 22/11/2010 00:11:22

Edited By Sam Stones on 22/11/2010 00:13:28

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Well the answer is very very simple.

 

If you do not want to be presented with these problems then buy a Myford or a Colchester, not sure if Boxfords are still selling to the public or only education.

 

Failing that there are some good German manufacturers.

 

This way you will be getting the cream of the range and will have nothing to bitch about .

 

As to whether you can afford it is obviously not part of the decision, the whole exercise is to be based on quality.

 

As regards expletives I make no excuses or apologies. If someone quotes incorrect information then anything they say can be taken with a pince of salt.

I don’t do PC,   a spade in my book is a bloody shovel.

 

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 22/11/2010 00:35:37

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well! you wont get much coal on a spade and it’s difficult to dig holes with a shovel, whoever makes them, whatever the price or the quality.

 

Regards Nick.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

The forum is not for expletives.

In case you have forgotten the new web editor is a lady and we also want to attract youngsters into the hobby.

regards david

 

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi All,

I swear a lot (in my workshop) about being such a greedy idiot to buy such cheap rubbish. Many years ago I bought various items at exhibitions, e. g.,  boxeed set of BA taps & dies which contained  something like no 7 BA taps but doubled – up 2BA, to fill the `holes` up. The vendor gets a box out from under the stand, opens it to show its full and then youre stuck with it, when at home you find the fraud. I also bought from another regular well known stall holder, a surface gauge which appeared to be OK til I put the scriber against a rule and the scriber and all its supporting adjustment mechanism promptly moved backwards!  However tightly it is fixed, the whole mechanism still moves. I have never worked out how to correct this and club members didnt know either. I have some nice Dormer drills with a shiny band on the shank where the size is very clearly stamped. I also have many drills, all black, very badly stamped, so bad I have to resort to a strong illumination at an angle + strong magnification to read a lot of them especially the smaller drills. This malaise seemed to start a few years ago when buying Metric drills but more recently to the old Imperial sizes. These drills again came from prominent ME suppliers. No doubt they are keeping their purchasing prices down by sourcing from the far east then selling to `us` at a high price and trousering the diff. Last week on a diff. thread I described the dodgy bandsaw that had to have a mod to stop the blade from keep jumping off the wheels. I could go on and at the same time praise my Myford lathe, Fobco Drill and the mill, all have given complete satisfaction albeit at a price. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

How about lathe tools from the exhibition with hard tips apparently `brazed` on – with chewing gum?  `Cos they fell of as soon as they were shown to the work.

 

[BogstandardParticipant @bogstandard]

What I would like to know.

 

What was Warco’s reaction when you showed them the problems?

 

Or did you just post them up here without informing them first?

 

If you did post without first contacting Warco, then there is no sympathy at all coming from this direction.

 

I have always found that if there is a problem, most (not all) retailers will bend over backwards to make sure you are happy with your purchase. For the ones that won’t, trading standards can usually be brought in to solve your problems, and then don’t ever use them again, and also warn other people off from using them. It is up to them to build their reputations back up again.

 

The lathe shown is very similar to my own, except for the build up of the head, I have a few more bits ‘n bobs inside mine, but I suffered none of the problems that were shown, and I went over mine with a fine tooth comb when doing all my vital and necessary initial setups.

In fact, the lathe I have, is the second one. I refused to accept the first because there were certain points to the lathe that I didn’t like, leadscrew cover preventing full travel of the saddle and the chuck guard wasn’t to my liking, plus a few other little niggles. The replacement was swapped over by the supplier (it took them most of a day to get the old one out of my shop and the new one installed), and all points that I had raised were cured to my satisfaction, and at a large cost to the supplier for not only the time spent on it, but by fitting third party bits to replace the ones that I wasn’t happy with.

In fact, I was invited to the factory workshop first, to check that everything was to my satisfaction before the swapover.

 

Warco, like most others, are box shifters, and can’t be expected to unpack every machine and give it a thorough going over. Doing that would most probably double the cost of whatever you have bought.

It is up to people like ourselves to tell them where the troubles lie, so that the manufacturers can get their ar**s kicked, and told not to do it again.

 

I know for a fact that some of the mods I have shown on sites belonging to suppliers have directly resulted in certain mods being done to machines at the factory.

 

So it does work, they do listen to the little man in the street, sometimes.

 

But one thing that MUST NOT be done, is to crucify a supplier without first giving them a chance to rectify what is wrong.

 

Bogs

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