Champion No 1 sensitive drill (made in England)

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

I have just acquired this from a friend. Does anyone know who made these?

Thanks

Dennis

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I will have a wild stab at this

http://www.championcuttingtool.com/_index_home.html

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Champion Cutting Tool is a long-established American firm – my sensitive drill is UK-made, with a big 1950's style label "Champion No 1 Made in England"

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Dennis,

There was also a Champion machine tool company in the United Kingdom, although I have no information about them. I'm not sure if they were related to the US company of the same name or completely independant. Sorry not to be of more help.

Regards

Terry

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Terry…Tony's http://www.lathes.co.uk/ lists Champion UK in his " incomplete list of Manufacturers and Brands" – there is no other information.

Regards

Dennis

Edited By Dennis WA on 19/04/2012 10:56:03

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Dennis,

I came across this, not much but at least a picture . The pictured machine reminds me of one I had in a school workshop used as a point of interest and discussion. Couldn't use it due to unguarded rotating bits.

Regards

Terry

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Modifications to the 'Champion' 1/4" drill were described by 'Duplex' (probably in ME but haven't found the issues) and I'm pretty sure it was a British product. I have the Duplex "In the Workshop" volumes (published in 1951) and (in volume 3) Duplex descibes the Champion as a machine "which has been widely used for many years past".

The modifications by the way are to increase the speed range. They also describe a similar mod for the 3/8" Cowells drill – one of which I happen to own (but have not so far modified).

Regards,

IanT

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by IanT on 19/04/2012 12:15:22:

Modifications to the 'Champion' 1/4" drill were described by 'Duplex' (probably in ME but haven't found the issues) and I'm pretty sure it was a British product…………….

Regards,

IanT

Hi Ian T,

The article which I think you are referring to is in issue 2508, p 548, 1949, vol. 100.

Regards

Terry

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Thank you Terry and IanT for your feedback.

The link to Champion (Machine Tools) in Graces Guide shows a picture of the drilling machine – it is identical to the one I have acquired, which, after removing some surface rust on the exposed steel column etc, is in very good condition.

Fortunately I have old MEs from 1939 onwards ( bought cheaply many years ago) and following up on your leads there are the ME articles by "Duplex" in issue 2500 (pg 478) and 2502 (pg 548) of Vol 100 (January – June 1949) dealing with extending the speed range of a 3/8" Cowells and a 1/4" Champion drilling machine.

As IanT quotes, they write on page 479, " …the 1/4" capacity Champion drilling machine, which has been widely used for many years past, …." I assume that these machines must date at least from the 1920's onwards?

Back to my question – does anyone know where Champion (Machine Tools) had their factory?

Many thanks

Regards

Dennis

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

I have a nice one of these drills. I under stand it was home build from a set of castings.

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Looking at the 1949 Vol100 ME they were advertised by tool merchants for Eight Pounds Five Shillings (presumably without motor)!

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Dennis ,

Champion drilling machines were made by :

B.Elliot & Co.Ltd.

Victoria Works , Willesden , London NW10 .

There were at least three models – called simply models 1 , 2 , 3 .

I have a quarter page ME review of the model 3 if you want to see it .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Michael,

are they the same Elliots who made the larger bench and pillar drilling machines?

Best regards

Terry

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Terry ,

C.B.Elliot became Elliot Machine Tools .

Under various trade names they manufactured , factored , badged in and badged out seemingly hundreds of types of machines . They also bought several other companies and continued their product lines as well .

Best known trade names :

'Elliot' as such . There are Elliot industrial lathes , mills and drills including radial arm drills .

There was also the Elliot variant of the BCA series mini jig borer .

'Selecta' for small machines like grinders . They also made the original forerunner of the Unimat as the Selecta Universal Machine Tool .

'Victoria' used mainly for milling machines .

'Cardiff ' – some absolutely superb lathes where made under this name in a subsidiary factory at Taffs Wells north of Cardiff . Building is still there .

'EMT' seems to have been used as a random alternatve to the full name .

You can pick up a bit more of the historical trail here : http://www.lathes.co.uk/elliott%20mini%20jig/index.html

Regards ,

Michael Williams

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Hi Michael..

Thanks for your comprehensive answers!

Which ME contained the review of the model 3? (As indicated in an earlier post above, I have bound volumes from 1939 onwards)

Regards

Dennis

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Dennis ,

Model Engineer Vol. 106 No.2657

Thursday April 24 1952 pp546/547

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

Hi Michael…

Thank you for the prompt response!

Regards

Dennis

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

[Harold Hall 1Participant @haroldhall1]

IanT and Dennis both mention the Cowells drilling machine, have a look here for a photo of one I made, complete with the speed range modification. This was supplied as three castings with the major machining already done. However, as a teenager I could not afford them so asked if I could purchase the raw castings, completing the task on a Myford ML4.

Incidentally, Cowells still exist, and in the same premises in Watford as they did 61 years ago. Unfortunately, they no longer supply the casting kits that they did then, one of which was a very nice hand powered shaper, see here . Does anyone reading this still own one?

This is not the same company who presently make small lathes and milling machines.

Harold

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

That is a coincedence! I have one of these that I "rescued" from the local recycling center – I had no idea it was a little brother to the two Elliot mills I have. I will take some pictures and upload them when I get a moment.

Mark

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

There are hand operated shaper castings available from Martin Model in the US (I'm in Canada so it's not quite the shipping problem it would be in the UK). I've considered something like this a few times but wonder how much physical effort is required. Does anyone have any direct experience in that regard?

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

turns out mine is a number 2 – the motor is out of the arc, probably an old hoover washing machine or the like!

Mark

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Sid – wrt your question about hand shapers.

I have an Adept No 2 hand shaper – and it's not really the physical effort (I only take small cuts anyway) but more the time it takes – it gets a bit boring. So it is a device that in some ways is better used for smaller items where the area you are machining isn't that large – not because you can't machine larger stuff – but because it simply takes more time. Very small slots/ways are also possible with simple tooling that's easy to sharpen.

Having said that – if the mill is already set up for something else – then some jobs still get done on it and I can get a very fine finsh with very simple tools. I also intend to make some tooling for line engraving – both on dials and flat surfaces. Another use could be keyway slots in bores – I'd probably do this on the Adept shaper rather than make a dedicated slotting attachment – easier/quicker.

So in summary a very useful device to have – especially for smaller items where my larger mill would be a bit too large, or where setting up on the vertical slide might be a bit of a pain (or I've got other stuff already in progress). I think it could also be used in a variety of other ways (with a little thought) where a controlled linear cutting motion is required.

Regards,

Ian T

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Thanks, Ian that's useful info. The shaper who's casting set I was referring to is necessarily limited to small jobs (4" stroke, 4" traverse). My main problem is that health related issues over the last few years have left me a bit down on muscle mass in my arms so a manual machine is a bit of a query.

Truth be told though, I'm more interested in the making of the machine than the using of it

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