Car problems

[RichardNParticipant @richardn]

If it's a mk4 mondeo, I can feel your pain, with mine (140k miles) sitting in the ford dealership waiting for them to master the ability to correctly replace the clutch…

They replaced the clutch, dual mass fly, and the seal between gearbox and clutch housing (the seal showed signs of weeping). Since car hadn't been touched since new, the bolts around gearbox were thoroughly seized- ended up with front subframe removed, along with suspension struts to provide enough clearance to get enough purchase onto the bolts to release them, and then dropping the engine almost entirely out to provide access to the gearbox etc.

reassembled, including new clutch kit etc, to find the sealing gasket still leaked.

stripped down, found rubber seal damaged, so replaced, new clutch kit, reassembled. still leaked.

they have now realised the seal insertion tool was damaged (burr from dropping on concrete floor?) which was damaging the seal as it was inserted… I think this is day 9 now, when they hope it will all be sorted…

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

I have the e-mail from Ford that they have never ended the Lifetime Guarantee programme.

They say it was entirely at the discretion of the Ford dealership whether or not they gave the customer the Lifetime Guarantee Certificate.

I would insist that your dealship give you that Certificate when the work is complete, it costs them nothing .

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

If this occured when you were changing gears it is possible it is stuck in neutral .

I would jack up one wheel ( leave one on the ground ) and put the car in top gear with the engine off , try spinning the raised wheel and and check for any sort of resistance if it freewheels with absolutely no resistance the problem lies in the diff or secondary drive section of the gearbox or the linkage / cable from the gear lever is broken and it is stuck in neutral.

If there is some resistance try it in different gears and neutral – look for the amount of resistance to change with the varying gear ratios . If there is no change between gears something has let go in the box .

If the resistance changes with the gear change and increases as you go down to a lower gear then you have issues with the clutch or input stage of the box .

As you heard no horrfic noises my bet would be gear lever linkage or cable , when selecting a gear does it feel exactly the same as it did before ? Has the lever gone sloppy ?

Ian

Edited By XD 351 on 20/06/2017 15:03:34

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I had a problem with my Mondeo which doesn't really fit your symptoms, my clutch went to the floor but the cable was ok. The pushrod that goes through the centre of the main shaft pushes on a hard steel button in the centre of the diaphragm Spring, the button had escaped due to wear on the spring fingers. This was a 1.6 and by partial dismantling the LH suspension I could pull the driveshaft out of the diff and then remove the gearbox. About two days hard work by the time it was all back together. The gearbox was a pig to get back on, my arms had nothing left in them and my mum said have a cup of tea and a sandwich, round two and it went straight on, how can it do that?

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Had a (very) old Citroen BX that occasionally would not select a gear. It turned out to be the selector ball joint coming adrift. After getting extremely frustrated at getting my hands dirty under the bonnet, my permanent fix – as shown by a breakdown man – which lasted until it went to Heaven (or more likely Hell) was a plastic tie wrap holding the ball joint together.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks Ian,

I just lifted the nearside wheel, a good tug on the tyre gives over a whole rotation in 6th but only half a rotation in first, and I can feel the extra drag. That suggests the transmission is probably intact (phew).

The two linkages both move to what look like the right positions, certainly a different position for each position of the stick.

The hydraulic connection is secure.

Some traces of fluid on one side of the box, but is directly under the brake fluid bottle (and I fitted a new caliper for the MOT last month) so probably just a spill.

So does look like either the brake lining let go or the splines on the clutch plate.

Just waiting for a price now.

Neil

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I had a similar problem whilst in Malawi I had earlier driven through a pot hole and the circlip on the diff shaft had come off but it wasn't till a few hours later that the shaft disengaged and no drive. Luckily I heard some English voices in the distance, and after a cold beer, they towed us to a local garage who couldn't find the circlip but fitted one and was no problem for the next week of honeymoon.

David

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

You mention hydraulic connection?

Is it a hydraulic clutch?
If so release the pipe on the master cylinder the piston may have stuck down ad holding the clutch open.
Had it on a few trucks in the past. Dodge was particularly prone to it with the knock need system. Gurgling was much better.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Neil, might be an idea to repeat test from the other side wheel.

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

On mine the clutch disc had parted company from the hub, nice neat crack right round.
It was caused by a shattered crank tail needle roller bearing letting the first motion shaft wiggle* about.

* technical term

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by JasonB on 20/06/2017 11:33:27:

If I remember rightly AA will only tow withing a certain area so in Neils case he was spread across two and had to change tow trucks.

1. RAC will tow all the way with one truck.

 

Just hope Neil can print the spare part once the fault is located

Edited By JasonB on 20/06/2017 11:34:06

Hi, well unless they have changed their policy or there are higher tariffs, when I broke down at Blyth Services on the A1, coming back from Harrogate a few years back, the RAC could only get me to Boston, which was not on my route home. From Boston my car was put on a car transporter, which was operated by a company contracted to RAC, but had their own work also. It didn't take quite as long as Neil's did, but it was about 11.00 pm before my car and I got home.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/06/2017 18:58:27

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

My son phoned to say he couldn't get car into gear, he was seven miles away so drove over to have a look, clutch u/s so explained how to drive without clutch, he was home before me.

Mike

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Hi Neil,

So just to be 100% clear in top gear you can still turn the wheel over more than one turn with x amount of resistance or drag and in first gear you can still do it but the drag is greatly increased ?

Did you try neutral ? Drag should obviously be minimal but there will be some drag as you are still turning the constant mesh gears ove in the box .

I'm also curious as ti whether you have tried to start the engine agian after you stopped it ?

I have seen some weird things over the years , friction plate hubs shearing off , broken cranks , seized throwout arms , seized slave cylinders and clutch pressure springs collapsing – the list goes on !

Ian.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 20/06/2017 11:33:27:

If I remember rightly AA will only tow withing a certain area so in Neils case he was spread across two and had to change tow trucks.

It was a subbie and he ran out of hours (he'd started at 1pm and dropped me off at 12:30am, leaving him 30 minutes to get back to base.

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Neil, if the engine RPM was still quite high when you dipped the clutch to change up, it's possible that the clutch linings disintegrated when they were freed from the spring pressure of the pressure plate,
I experienced exactly the same thing a few years ago on a Renault, the clutch was only a year old, but when I got it stripped out, only the sprung centre plus what was left of the rivets remained, all of the clutch lining from one side had centrifuged into a manky mess lodged in the outer reaches of the pressure plate, no noise at all when it threw the towel in.

I've seen this phenomenon on a few occasions back in the day on the Audi 100 range,

John.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by XD 351 on 20/06/2017 19:30:44:

Hi Neil,

So just to be 100% clear in top gear you can still turn the wheel over more than one turn with x amount of resistance or drag and in first gear you can still do it but the drag is greatly increased ?

Yes

Did you try neutral ? Drag should obviously be minimal but there will be some drag as you are still turning the constant mesh gears ove in the box .

Yes

I'm also curious as ti whether you have tried to start the engine agian after you stopped it ?

Yes, runs fine

I have seen some weird things over the years , friction plate hubs shearing off , broken cranks , seized throwout arms , seized slave cylinders and clutch pressure springs collapsing – the list goes on !

Ian.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by John Stevenson on 20/06/2017 16:46:20:
You mention hydraulic connection?

Is it a hydraulic clutch?
If so release the pipe on the master cylinder the piston may have stuck down ad holding the clutch open.
Had it on a few trucks in the past. Dodge was particularly prone to it with the knock need system. Gurgling was much better.

I'll try that once I've translated it into english

Ah! lockheed and girling?

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Reminds me of an unforgettable time I changed the clutch on a Morris Murinal van in Halifax. It was mid winter and f cold. I had to do it alone in the dark with a torch and the car up on a set of ramps in a single garage with the door wide open and the wind howling in. I was b***ard annoyed to find once it was back together that it wouldn't disengage as I'd obviously fitted the clutch plate back to front. I even recalled checking it was the right way.

I had to drive it to and from work in Wetherby through Leeds rush hour traffic for 2 weeks before I was able to do it again properly. The skill was not to stop on a hill, as you had to start it in first gear and then change gears without the clutch. Aye, times were hard. lad.

Murray

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

My classic was helping my steplad change the head gasket on a B-series diesel in a narrowboat, in freezing winter conditions and finding dropped nuts in the ice-cold, black, oily bilgewater by what feeling was left in our fingers. Took the whole day from not long after sun up to dark.

It obviously needed a new head gasket as the cooling water was full of white 'cream', didn't it… err no, we started it up and it became swiftly obvious that the problem was a cracked joint in an oil cooler made like a little multi-tube boiler. Took about twenty minutes to clean, flux and remake the soft soldered joints in my cosy workshop

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 20/06/2017 16:34:02:

So does look like either the brake lining let go or the splines on the clutch plate.

Just waiting for a price now.

Neil

Yep or crook pressure springs seized throwout bearing ( seized to input shaft ) at least it sounds like the geabox and diff assembly is ok .

40k out of a new clutch is a bit on the lean side for my liking but i did have a reconditioned unit fail about 10 miles into its life ,some of the fingers that lift the pressure plate broke so when the pedal was pushed down it didn't lift the pressure plate evenly causing it to drag on the friction plate making gear changee impossible and you had to shut the engine down to even get it into gear . Never bought a reco clutch again !

Ian.

[colin branniganParticipant @colinbrannigan54160]

Just a thought………..

Maybe the shift cable broke or eye end popped off when you changed gear passing neutral, lift the cover off the shifter check both cables are fixed and moving and do same on top of gearbox.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I had a long bolt come out of the starter motor and into the bellhousing. As I went around a roundabout 100 miles from home the bolt moved and lodged behind the thrust bearing effectively acting like the clutch pedal was pressed all the time. I didn't know what was wrong so had to get home on a trailer. Started to dismantle to get at the clutch the next day and one of the first jobs was to remove the starter motor. As soon as I had it in hand it was obviously missing one of the bolts that went from one end to the other. Moving the lever on the outside released the bolt and I managed to get it out through the starter motor hole quite easily. Put it all back together and the problem was gone.

Martin C

[Antony PowellParticipant @antonypowell28169]

As A HGV driver I once had a clutch release pack fail on me in Cornwall, I limped it all the way back to Teesport near Middlesborough including a night out stopover without a clutch, timing my gear changes with engine speed fully loaded at 38 tons and the thanks i got off my boss when I drove into the yard was "if you've damaged the gearbox I'll sack you" Didn't do him any more favours after that and left two months later…..(of my own accord)

Tony

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If the clutch clears to allow gears to be engaged, it is likely that the clutch is intact and functioning, (assuming that NOT depressing the clutch blocks gear engagement.

It is possible that one drive shaft has stripped it's splines or those in the hub, although the action should feel rough and gritty. If you engage gear with the engine running, you should be able to see the shaft rotating withing the hub (Handbrake HARD on before you do this!

If it is any help, neighbour's son had similar experience, with his Renault Megane, half way along a country lane, miles from nowhere. Would not drive in gear, but the speedo registered if the engine was revved in Neutral. Towed home, found that left hand drive shaft was intact, but right hand was not connected to the transmission.

The gearbox looked like a bigger version of the Renault 5 one, a sectioned drawing of which showed R H drive shaft retained in the diff by a large circlip. We removed the inner drive shaft gaiter from the gearbox and the circlip was there but out of the groove. There was a slot in the casing which cut across the circlip groove. His dad went and got a new circlip, WHICH HAD AN EAR TO LOCK INTO THE CAST GROOVE! Fitted new circlip, replaced Gaiter, topped with oil, and that lasted until he sold the car.

HTH

Howard

[Trev67Participant @trev67]

Hi Neil

Some of this has been covered by others, but this is what I suggest.

Sitting in the car engine off, does the clutch pedal feel normal?

Engine off, does the gear selection feel normal, as in everything still connected?

Now start the engine, depress clutch and select gears, particularly reverse, after not having first selected any other gear. If this is ok then clutch is clearing ok.

Now try selecting gears, engine running, but without depressing the clutch. If it is exactly the same as with the clutch depressed, i.e. no undue resistance on the forward gears, and no crunching on reverse, then clutch lining has probably broken up, or similar total clutch failure.

If there is some resistance when selecting the forward gears, but if you lean on synchromesh you can get it to select, and in reverse it crunches, then it suggests that there is at least some drive through the clutch. If this is the case, I'd look at the driveshafts, check for telltale twisted or split gaiters. If you can get an assistant to engage a gear and try and pull away, check the driveshafts, you may see one spinning. If the is no obvious driveshaft fault, then it probably best to remove them and check for stripped splines.

I've definitely had a Jag x type which is basically a Mondeo, loose drive because the spline on the inner end of a driveshaft stripped.

This may not be relevant, but if the RH driveshaft has a bolted flange on the inner end, rather than pushing straight into the gearbox, it may be the same as the ford galaxy gearbox. If it is the bit that goes into the gearbox is a short stub shaft, and it is quite common for the spline on that to strip. To remove it after the driveshaft is removed, there is a socket head bolt recessed in the middle of it that needs removing, and then it pulls out.

hope this helps

good luck

Trevor

[Author]

Posts