Buzzed by Spitfire!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The tank that made the most use of the RR Meteor engine was the Centurion. The engine was built by Rover, and had 650hp. Some mates of mine in the Military Vehicles Club got an Australian Centurion for a birthday present for one of the guys. It arrived in Wellington, and came to the South Island by the Inter Island Ferry, they removed the fuel for the trip. At Picton they put in a Jerry can of fuel, and started it, warm up 20 minutes, and started to disembark. got half way down the ramp to the wharf, ran out of fuel. There's lots more to the story, but lots of fun was had by all. Ian S C

[BubbleParticipant @bubble]

Hello Brian et al

Thanks for that. The test pilots at RR Hucknall flew the Spitfire a lot, they reckoned landing it was good practice for landing a Lightning, nose up and crabbed sideways to see where you were going. I well remember the Spitfire on take-off, the tail was in the air as soon as the throttle was opened, lifted by the wash from that fearsome five-blade propeller.

Speaking of the Lightning, they lost one and the pilot's R/T was sent round the squadrons as an example of how to behave in an emergency:

(in clipped voice)

"Smoke in the cockpit"

" I don't think I can stay with this aeroplane much longer"

"Eee-jecting"

They don't make them like that any more.

Or maybe they do.

Jim

[“Bill Hancox”Participant @billhancox]

Ian SC

RR power packs in the Centurian tank. Definitely a pity that the Centurian tank was not produced until the end of the war. It would have saved many lives amongst the tank crews and would have probably shortened the war. My Dad was the WO2 of a Royal Canadian Dragoon Light Aid Detachment for twelve years of his service. He loved the Centurian. I recall him telling me that the fuel consumption was 4 Imp Gal per Mile. Dad once told me that they had to keep the used and spare plugs in the shop safe due to the platinum content of the electrodes. There has been a Centurian bridge layer on static display at a local army base since the Centurian was replaced by the Leopard. When work was scheduled for a steam line running underground beneath the bridge layer, it had to be moved to a new location about 300 meters away. They managed to find one serving soldier on the base who was qualified to operate it. He was a WO1 Engineer with 37 years of service. He had not operated a Centurian bridge layer in over 30 years and the bridge layer had been on static display for over 25 years. They changed the oil, installed batteries and fuel and the old girl fired right up. After a bit of smoke that RR engine was purring like a kitten and moved easily to its new display pad.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Bill, you mention smoke, when the Centurion was obtained there was a choice, smoky or non smoky, I think they got the non smoky, if you want smoke buy Russian. It did the main bit of the trip south on a tank transporter, next morning it was driven from it's hiding place to it's new owners place.

The design required it to be armoured against the German 88 gun, this put it well over the original spec of 40 tons, and as the tank was developed through the marks it got heavier, more armour, more hp, and in the end a diesel engine, some up to 810hp.

The only thing that buzzes us here these days is a Strikemaster based in Christchurch (civvy owned) giving rides for the paying public(someone's got more spare cash than I have). Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Had a small jet over yessterday, could have been a Provost but I only got a very brief view. Wing tip tanks and a 'fat head' profile.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Neil, in RNZAF slang a "Blunty" Provost / Strikemaster, There a number of them in storage, probably listed as instructional airframes at RNZAF Woodbourne. There are (I think) two civilian Blunties flying in NZ. Ian S C

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/06/2014 15:31:00:

Had a small jet over yessterday, could have been a Provost but I only got a very brief view. Wing tip tanks and a 'fat head' profile.

Neil

It might have been on its way to RAF Cosford where one displayed yesterday and today.

**LINK**

They had a live video feed during the show but it seems to have gone now.

I mainly wanted to see the Vulcan.

Gary

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Could be – it was heading SW over Branston.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 08/06/2014 19:05:17

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is for Geoff to drool over …

MichaelG.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Thanks for that MichaelG.

That's a biggie and makes the twin Dellorto setup on my 105E look puny.

We never think of SU producing such monsters.

Talking of SU, I intend fitting an H1 to my Austin Seven engine. Pity the 'Old Man' at 'The Austin' didn't beat his rival in purchasing the company.

Never found an SU equipped engine not start first time.

Amazing carb.

Geoff – Off to roast more coffee beans.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Michael – re. the piccy, does that one include Miss Shilling's orifice?

Rgds

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Edit: Unfortunately I cannot find a detail photo of the item in question.

… However, this might help avoid any misunderstanding.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/06/2014 12:59:08

[Anonymous]

Slaving away on the repetition lathe this afternoon for work, I heard aircraft engines, big 'n' heavy. Given that there is an airshow at Duxford this weekend, it seemed worthwhile running out into the garden. Worth it indeed, I watched the Lancaster fly right over the bungalow at about 1000 feet, accompanied by the Hurricane, but no Spitfire I could see. They would have flown right through the ATZ at Bourn, but that may well have been a salute to the Lancasters and their crews that were based at Bourn during the war.

Andrew

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

At home four miles north of Shuttleworth Museum, had a hurricane and another pass between us heading towards Cambridge way earlier this afternoon.

Martin P

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Spitfire just gone over Chalgrove heading east.

Mike

[Anonymous]

Saw a Spitfire fairly close up yesterday. I was towing a glider prior to launching a competition grid. As we were climbing through 1500 feet a Spitfire flashed by head on, about 500 feet above and a couple of hundred feet to the left, heading towards Duxford. The Spitfire had D-Day markings, so presumably Griffon powered.

As a little light relief I also flew into RAF Wyton yesterday afternoon to retrieve a glider; not been there before. The approach and tower ATC were very friendly and gave clear instructions, fitting us in between the RAF training flights. They even delivered the glider pilot back to his glider in a big red fire engine along with three firemen in full protective gear to give us a hand. I expect the short trip in the fire engine burnt more fuel than I used doing the retrieve.

Andrew

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I've often wondered – what sort of 'mpg' do you get with a light aircraft?

Neil

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

What sort of 'mpg' do you get with a light aircraft? Not sure;but a racing RR Merlin at Reno manages achieves about 0.44 mpg or 210 gph (big imperial gallons not the US kind)

The Unlimited class RR Merlin powered racers go flashing around the Reno racecourse mighty fast. Four hundred eighty miles an hour is 8 miles a minute, and the elite racers take about 70 seconds to cover the 9.1 mile Reno course. If you could take a souped P-51 racer flying the circuit at Reno, slow time down, and examine just one second, what would you find?

In that one second, the V-12 Rolls-Royce Merlin engine would have gone through 60 revolutions, with each of the 48 valves slamming open and closed 30 times. The twenty four spark plugs have fired 720 times. Each piston has traveled a total of 60 feet in linear distance at an average speed of 41 miles per hour, with the direction of movement reversing 180° after every 6 inches. Three hundred and sixty power pulses have been transmitted to the crankshaft, making 360 sonic booms as the exhaust gas is expelled from the cylinder with a velocity exceeding the speed of sound. The water pump impeller has spun 90 revolutions, sending 4 gallons of coolant surging through the engine and radiators. The oil pumps have forced 47 fluid ounces, roughly one-third gallon, of oil through the engine, oil cooler, and oil tank, scavenging heat and lubricating the flailing machinery. The supercharger rotor has completed 348 revolutions, its rim spinning at Mach 1, forcing 4.2 pounds or 55 ft³ of ambient air into the combustion chambers under 3 atmospheres of boost pressure. Around 9 fluid ounces of high octane aviation fuel, 7,843 BTUs of energy, has been injected into the carburetor along with 5.3 fluid ounces of methanol/water anti-detonant injection fluid. Perhaps 1/8 fluid ounce of engine oil has been either combusted or blown overboard via the crankcase breather tube. Over 1.65 million foot pounds of work have been done, the equivalent of lifting a station wagon to the top of the Statue of Liberty.

In that one second, the hard-running Merlin has turned the propeller through 25 complete revolutions, with each of the blade tips having arced through a distance of 884 feet at a rotational velocity of 0.8 Mach. Fifteen fluid ounces of spray bar water has been atomized and spread across the face of the radiator to accelerate the transfer of waste heat from the cooling system to the atmosphere.

In that one second, the aircraft itself has traveled 704 feet, close to 1/8 mile, or roughly 1.5% of a single lap. The pilot's heart has taken 1.5 beats, pumping 5.4 fluid ounces of blood through his body at a peak pressure of 4.7 inches of mercury over ambient pressure. Our pilot happened to inspire during our measured second, inhaling approximately 30 cubic inches (0.5 liter) of oxygen from the on-board system, and 2.4 million, yes million, new red blood cells have been formed in the pilot's bone marrow.

It's the world's fastest motorsport. Don't blink!

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Saw THE Vulcan bomber pass overhead some time around the 5th or 6th Aug. Can't recall exactly where I was but it would have been somewhere in the Yorks / Lancs (Pennines) area. Very majestic and ominous.Presumably on a test run or heading to an air show.

Last saw one in the flesh at an air show just outside Doncaster in the mid to late eighties. Took off and immediately went into what looked like a vertical climb. You could almost feel the noise in your bowels. A phenomenon I'll never forget that!

Murray

[TSHParticipant @tsh73987]

Neil,

We cruise our old Beagle Pup 150 at 95 knots and burn a little over 30 litres per hour. That makes it about 16mpg. (How about that for a mixture of units?)

But the Pup is rather blunt and modern composite technology will do much better.

Regards,

Trevor

[Anonymous]

I have a hazy recollection that the RF3 that I used to fly did 50mpg at 100mph. However, it was a pretty small engine; a converted 1200cc VW Beetle engine.

Earlier this evening I did an out and return from Gransden Lodge (west of Cambridge) to Rougham (east of Bury St. Edmunds). Straight line distance is 120km there and back. I did a bit of detour each way around Cambridge to avoid the airport, and a heavy rain shower on the way back. So let's say total distance was 130km, about 80 miles. I started full and put in 5.4 gallons when I got back, so 14.8mpg. But life is never that simple; when I got to Rougham I did a quick circuit to make sure I had the correct airfield, as I've never landed there before. I then called an overhead join, and was promptly asked to wait as a student was doing her second solo flight; fair enough. Then followed a 15 minute wait while the student sorted herself out and did a couple of circuits. The total flight time was about 1 hour 20 minutes, but I reckon I wasted 20 minutes in total orbiting. So lets say the trip itself was only 75% of the fuel burn. That gives about 19.8mpg. Not great, but in my defence we have a fine pitch propeller on the aircraft which is good for towing but not so good in the cruise. I also had a glider on the back for almost all of the return trip, which is extra drag.

Cruise speed on the way out was 90knots, and 80knots on the way back. On the way back the engine was doing 2500rpm; With a normal propeller a cruise of 100+ knots would be at 2300rpm.

That's a long winded way of saying the light aircraft mpg are probably a bit lower than modern cars, but of course the cruise speeds are higher. Oh, and the engine technology is archaic. For those unfamiliar with knots 100kts is 115mph.

Andrew

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Yes, but what about a Cessna?

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 20/08/2014 20:55:06:

Yes, but what about a Cessna?

Neil

No idea, as I don't fly them – Andrew

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Neil,

Cessna 150/152 = 'Between 15 and 22 miles per gallon' (U.S. gallons)

So, say 18 to 26.5 miles to UK gallons.

**LINK**

Regards, (and wishing you happy flying),

Phil

Edited By Weary on 20/08/2014 21:34:57

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Normal way of considering fuel consumption with aircraft is by fuel flow, ie., Andrews Pawnee probably cruises at something like 10 gal per hour (never got round to litres), with a constant speed prop it might be nearer 8 to 9gph, A Cessna 180 would be maybe 10 to 12gph.   A  Cessna 172, depending on which engine, and which prop (fixed pitch), could be from 6 to 11 gph, while a Cessna 150 would be around 5 gph with a Continental O-200/ 100hp engine.  It all depends on the individual aircraft, the propeller, how much extra junk you carry on board, ie., the all up weight, even the CofG effects it, if it's too far fore ward or back the machine has to be trimmed  to suit, adding a little drag.  It's all too complicated, maybe that's why gliding is so popular.

Some also quote the fuel consumption in pounds per horse power per hour, or just pounds per hour.

Ian S C 

Edited By Ian S C on 21/08/2014 11:40:44

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