Buying first lathe

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Peter Hall on 22/06/2020 16:53:04:

Posted by Jacob Brown on 22/06/2020 13:30:10:

Unfortunetaly at this stage I wouldn't have neither knowledne nor tools to measure lethe bed properly. Seller unfortunately appear to be some kind of trader hence I'm unable to get any information as to previous usage etc

Then avoid used machinery. If you have no experience, a warranty will give you peace of mind.

If there is a club close to you, it might be worth your while waiting until lockdown ends and paying them a visit. You could learn a lot from talking directly to lathe users. There is a limit to what you can learn by asking questions on the internet.

Pete

Fully refurbished Myford by manufacturer is off my limits. I'm keen to gamble on second hand though. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with lathe experience to help me out with buying one but thanks to all of your advices I know bit more than I did before.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Peter Hall on 22/06/2020 16:58:05:

The worst case failure seems to be motor which can be replaced as there is no electronic on Myford.

Oh no! It could be a LOT worse than that.

Pete

I meant electrical / electronic side of thing.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Jacob Brown on 22/06/2020 13:30:10:

 

 

 

 

If you look closely at some of the small components in this pic, like the V block with two clamps at the top, they are very heavily corroded. Then others like the small drill chuck's taper shank look like they have been etched with corrosion then cleaned up with a wire buffing wheel. Then there are the two small graduated dials off the cross slide and top slide at the left of the pic. They look pretty badly corroded vs the shiny new ones that have been fitted to the lathe in the main pic you posted first up. So I would say this was a pretty rough lathe with a lot of corrosion that has been polished and painted to look nice and shiny new dials fitted.

Which brings us to the bed. (The one that costs 800quid to regrind). Careful inspection of the OP pic shows a lot of small "blowhole" type marks along the bed, even at the relatively unused tailstock end, on the flat top surfaces of the ways. Initiially I thought they might be casting blowholes – which is unusual but this is an early model ML7 so maybe they were a bit rough in the casting back then? Never seen it though.

Or on the other hand, was the bed as heavily corroded as some of those accessories in the latest pic and has been wire-wheel buffed up to look as nice as it does, leaving those random deeper rust pit marks down its length?

I think I'd pass on this one unless I could give it a real good inspection and meausure up in person.

 

Edited By Hopper on 23/06/2020 01:28:06

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

If it is a dealer, I would expect some, at least, of those ‘accessories’ would have been added from elsewhere. It is the usual way of trading up any item. Those two painted items might appear to be exactly the same shade as the lathe? Never been used? Make of that as you wish…

I would reserve judgement until carefully inspected. Personally, I would not shell out a grand on a second hand item unseen. Simple as that, but YMMV. Check out the ‘Halifax lathe’ thread fiasco that is running currently. There are differing opinions regarding that one.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hopper's comments, and a closer look, make me think that this is a machine that has stood somewhere in a barn for a very long time, and allowed to go very rusty.

Being sarcastic, the best part of it is the paint job.

If I were in your shoes, "Pass" might be the better option, followed by saving until the budget will stand the cost of a new machine and the tooling to go with it.

With a new machine, you would have a Warranty and some after sales support if there are problems. A new machine may not be perfect (Hobby machines are built down to a price, not upto an Industrial standard ) but at least you should get help and any spares from a reputable dealer, if there are problems.

One word of advice; if there is a problem, don't try to fix it yourself, you may make things worse.

Take advice, and don't do anything which might void the warranty. Keep in close contact with the supplier. Some will replace a faulty machine, rather than get involved in a protracted issue with the customer.

You are soon up and running again, and they have the knowledge and facilities to fix the problem machine.

If you read the various threads on the Forum, you will soon read of users experiences with Importers.

They may well be selling the same machine, in a different paint scheme, but some are better than others in the pre sales and after market support. provided.

Howard

Howard.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Thank you all for response to my post. To be honest It was first time I experianced so great support from anyone online. I was expecting some advice but your input simply blown my mind. For better or worse lathe in question found already new owner. I must admit you gave me great deal to think about. My mind was focused on old machinery but now I'm not sure anymore what is best approach to get first lathe. For what I gathered I can get in sorted in three ways:

1 – Buying cheapo chinese lathe without aftermarket support (ruled out),

2 – Buying more expensive chinese from long established local dealer with aftermarket support and access to spares'

3 – Spending much more for refubrished by manufacturer machine that's going to outlast me.

One can't expeect succesful venture without adequate financial input. Every other opssibility is less or more gamble depend on buyers ability to exam lathe.

Jacob

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Don't have regrets, there are better 'original', unpainted items like that one around. Just be patient..

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

When considering option 3) do remember that your requirements may well change long before you get ‘oulasted’!

Option 2) is not necessarily any more expensive than option 1). But option 1), while being a bit of a lottery might well be more expensive than option 2) over the fairly short term, even if option 1) turns out OK.

My first lathe was a mistake which I realised fairly soon after purchase. It was a ‘rushed’ purchase. My second was a cheap opportunist purchase which eventually demonstrated the drawbacks of my initial purchase. A master stroke, on my part, to have bought it. My current lathe is a purchase made at my leisure – I just waited for the right machine because I knew what to look for. It was simply a further improved development of my second lathe (which continued to serve me well while casting around for the top of the range model of the marque). A long gone manufacturer but not myford.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Another bit of advice from me, for better or worse.

If you think that a lathe with a 2 1/2" centre height will do what you want, buy a 3 1/2". As you gain experience and confidence, you will want to do more and more, and eventually change to a larger machine.

My ML7 frustrated me because of the small, (2 MT ) bore mandrel. Changing to the latest 4MT version, with all my wish list items, except one, would have cost me four times what I paid for a larger Chinese machine with VFD and it DID have a power cross feed.

Like cutting metal, measure twice, cut once. Time spent researching is well spent

I have had it since 2003, and apart from some warranty work (noisy tumbler gears ) very early on, it has served me well. I have more confidence in it than in my older Mill/Drill!

Howard

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

I think you were lucky someone else 'won that lathe' I think it had a paint job that gave a much better feeling of the machine than was actually true.

Yeah. I think you're right. For what I learnt from you buying second hand lathe is similar to used car:

-Avoid traders.

-Avoid tarted up ones.

-Make sure is in oryginal setting.

-Make test run or ask someone else to do it for you, otherwise run away.

-Make sure there is no play between parts, barrings and suspicious noises coming out of it.

-Tooling coming with lathe is very important factor as getting it may cost more than lathe itself.

-Don't rush into buying – it's only matter of time before something else will come up.

-Rust is the biggest enemy of machine.

Thank you Barrie and all others one more time

Jacob

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Have a look in the classifieds on this site. Right now there is a very nice looking Myford M Type for 300 quid. Been in the family since new and looks in well preserved condition. They are a good old lathe capable of precision work and would get you started at less outlay.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Hopper on 26/06/2020 23:54:37:

Have a look in the classifieds on this site….

Thank you for hint Hopper. I messaged seller, hopefully I wasn't too late.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Jacob Brown on 27/06/2020 02:01:13:

Posted by Hopper on 26/06/2020 23:54:37:

Have a look in the classifieds on this site….

Thank you for hint Hopper. I messaged seller, hopefully I wasn't too late.

Youd bestvtry again. See the thread Neil posted saying a message sent to the seller had your contact details accidentally deleted.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Sometimes I despair at the nonsense some of you talk. 🙄 You are so suspicious.

 

Firstly I doubt this is a trader, they would have likely parted out the accessories to increase profit. But even if it was that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some of the worst machines ive ever seen have belonged to self proclaimed "model engineers". You know the type, the people who think they are experts but in reality are messers and bodgers. A good trader will know what faults to look for beforehand.

 

With that in mind the advice should have been "go have a look at it" run the saddle up and down, wiggle the parts around to test for play, turn it on see if it sounds ok and give it a try. It's the same thing you would do if you where buying a second hand car.

 

My personal advice? forget the chinese stuff, especially at the lower end. The quality control is appalling. You can't fix something that was never built properly in the first place. At least the old stuff was built correctly to start with. PS. I am 34 and speaking from experience not from nostalgia. My second piece of advice is to forget the Myford, look for a Boxford. They are superior in every way yet cost about the same secondhand and most of them have only seen light use in schools and colleges.

 

A lathe is quite a unique piece of machinery. It needs to be both a swiss watch and a bulldozer. 

Edited By Hollowpoint on 27/06/2020 13:56:52

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well having had both a Boxford & now a Myford, i thought both machines were well made. Why slag a Myford. Why is a Boxford better.

As for Chinese made ones of which i have not had. I think there are some that are well made & fine. Some are not so good but at what price. Rolls Royces for ten bob is not going to happen.

Steve.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I think the OP made it clear the seller was a trader and that he was unable to go look at it.

I'd agree that a South Bend clone such as Boxford is a very good option at often less money and well worth looking at.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Posted by Steviegtr on 27/06/2020 14:08:41:

Well having had both a Boxford & now a Myford, i thought both machines were well made. Why slag a Myford. Why is a Boxford better.

As for Chinese made ones of which i have not had. I think there are some that are well made & fine. Some are not so good but at what price. Rolls Royces for ten bob is not going to happen.

Steve.

I'm not slagging the Myford they are nice machines but they have gained almost a cult following and the prices are getting a bit daft.

The Boxford is better IMO because it has prism ways, taper roller headstock bearings, larger diameter spindle bore, usually a more powerful motor and is generally of more robust construction all round.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 27/06/2020 11:27:13:

Posted by Jacob Brown on 27/06/2020 02:01:13:

Posted by Hopper on 26/06/2020 23:54:37:

Have a look in the classifieds on this site….

Thank you for hint Hopper. I messaged seller, hopefully I wasn't too late.

Youd bestvtry again. See the thread Neil posted saying a message sent to the seller had your contact details accidentally deleted.

.

< BUMP >

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

 

Youd bestvtry again. See the thread Neil posted saying a message sent to the seller had your contact details accidentally deleted.

Your help is much appreciated Hopper. It seems that very soon I'll join club of lathe owners thanks to your message.

Regards

Jacob

.

 

Edited By Jacob Brown on 28/06/2020 19:32:47

[DurhambuilderParticipant @durhambuilder]

Jacob, I have absolutely no connection with the seller but if I were you I’d have a good look at the Boxford currently on the Home Workshop site for £750.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Durhambuilder on 01/07/2020 15:36:37:

Jacob, I have absolutely no connection with the seller but if I were you I’d have a good look at the Boxford currently on the Home Workshop site for £750.

Thank you for suggestion but I already bought Myford ML4. Seems to be in good nick apart from damaged (probably broken off) end of spindle.

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Jacob, from what I can see in your pictures that lathe isn't a ML4 or any other sort of true Myford lathe but it looks VERY much like a Drummond "M" Type – the knock off bar along the front is a bit of a give away as I believe they were never fitted to Myford designed lathes but very much a Drummond feature. Where you may be getting confused is that during World War 2 Myford made Drummond M Type lathes under licence at first but later the rights to the design were assigned to Myford by Drummond. So you can have :

1.a Drummond M type completely manufactured by Drummond

2. a Drummond M type assembled by Myford from parts that were transferred to Myford fromDrummond

3. a Drummond/Myford M type assembled from parts made by Myford to Drummond designs

or finally

4. A Myford manufactured lathe built to the Drummond M type design but incorporating modifications introduced by Myford.

About the only way to check that is to find the serial number on the bed (tail-stock end) and check that with the files on the Drummond lathes io group.

Yes the end of the spindle is damaged, the thread should be at least twice as long as that.

So long as the important parts of the lathe are in good order then you should have a very competent machine when you get it set up, they have a very good reputation.

[Roger WhiteleyParticipant @rogerwhiteley62172]

That's a really nice looking machine, how the **** did anybody manage to break off the spindle nose threads. Clumsy muppet.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Roger Whiteley on 08/07/2020 14:49:56:

That's a really nice looking machine, how the **** did anybody manage to break off the spindle nose threads. Clumsy muppet.

I started my small investigation and according to guys from Drummond Io group previous owned bored spindle to 1/2" and most likely in process broke off part of it.

[Author]

Posts