best machine tools for lathe

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

[Martin NewboldParticipant @martinnewbold]

I have been looking at the diverse collection of lathe tools and only have experience of the my ford carbon tipped tools. I note there are Chinese makers making Osrom or something similar and there are also indexable carbide inserts. does anyone have any experience in using these tools of different type and what are you using now and why please?

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Indexable inserts have been debated / discussed here ad nauseam and beyond. What's this about "Osrom"? Perhaps you could post a link – unless this is to turn into another of those quiz threads. Not aware of "carbon tipped" tools either – perhaps I'm missing something.

Murray

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Do you mean Myford carbide tipped? I can't see any on their website?

There are several places selling brazed carbide tipped tools. The best advice I can give is to avoid them at all costs as generally the quality is poor, you will soon chip one, and then its junk unless you have a grinding wheel that will cope. Even then it's hit and miss.

Indexable carbide tools are a very different kettle of fish. There are lots of suppliers to the hobby, quite a lot of discussion here. I can recommend JB Cutting Tools and Greenwood Tools, I've bought from both and the tools have been/are good. You buy a holder and inserts that generally have multiple cutting edges, as one wears you turn the insert round to select another. Widely used in industry – in fact the default nowadays. There has been a view that they don't work well with our small lathes, but I find them fine with my Super 7. But search on here for other views. My go-to tools use rhombic 80 degree inserts, I have holders for RH and LH knife and boring, and also one that lets you use the 100 degree corners for roughing.

I can also recommend the Diamond Tool Holder from Eccentric Engineering – see advert/link to the right. These use a 1/4" HSS square bit but have only one face to sharpen. Give very good finish and can take large cuts.

[Alan Wilkinson 1Participant @alanwilkinson1]

For me Sandvik are the inserts to use but you do need to up your speed especialy when screwing, And on the less powerful lathes make sure you get positive rake inserts, Industry uses negative rake but they have the power to push off the metal. So Sandvik positive rake works fine on my Myford 7

Alan

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have a various assortment of cutting tools, insert tip, tangential tool from Eccentric Eng. HSS set from ArcEuro etc… ( usual disclaimer ) Left & right hand insert holders plus boring bars. I tend to use the tangential tool most of the time as it deal with all metals satisfactorily, except cast iron for which I have a couple of brazed carbide tip tools.

George.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by mechman48 on 11/03/2018 12:58:26:

I have a various assortment of cutting tools, insert tip, tangential tool from Eccentric Eng. HSS set from ArcEuro etc… ( usual disclaimer ) Left & right hand insert holders plus boring bars. I tend to use the tangential tool most of the time as it deal with all metals satisfactorily, except cast iron for which I have a couple of brazed carbide tip tools.

George.

I’m pretty much the same. I really like the Tangential tool I made but also use insert tooling from JB.

**LINK**

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

For most of what I do, 1/4″ square HSS provides a very good basis for offhand- ground tools of whatever form is useful for the turning I’m doing. Once you’ve understood rake and clearance angles you can grind knife, grooving, threading and many special- purpose form tools just as you want. I do have a couple of carbide inserts tools for roughing and more difficult materials.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

By the way, a "machine tool" is normally understood to be one where power is used to move a tool against a workpiece or vice-versa. So my first reading of your thread title was "what machine tool would I fit in a lathe" to which the only answers I know are a milling spindle or a toolpost grinder. Sorry to be pedantic…

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Posted by John Haine on 11/03/2018 17:48:37:

By the way, a "machine tool" is normally understood to be one where power is used to move a tool against a workpiece or vice-versa. So my first reading of your thread title was "what machine tool would I fit in a lathe" to which the only answers I know are a milling spindle or a toolpost grinder. Sorry to be pedantic…

Thats why its good to always read the rest of the post, does save some embarrasment.

From one who speaks from experience

Regards

Lofty

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Most carbide tipped tools are supplied as unground blanks.

Most suppliers don't state this.

Most purchasers don't realise this.

Hence most users think they are crap because they are trying to cut using tools with negative front clearance, which is like trying to thread a rope through a needle…

Neil

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

I have recently started to use ccmt0602 tools for boring & turning, they are very cheap direct from China. They are blinking expensive from UK suppliers in comparison. £3 inc postage was the best price I had for a boring bar. The cutting speeds and feeds are a fair improvement over my 15yo triangular inserts with an improved finish. The latest insert shapes are definitely an improvement on the previous generation.

Regards

Richard

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

I bought a tangential tool holder but never really got enthusiastic about it. The upside down parting tool holder on the other hand, I love it. I recommend it if your chuck doesn't screw on.

I used HSS tools for at least 5 years (and continue to use them mostly) and only bought a set of carbide tips late last year. My lathe might be strong enough for them but I do hear the motor slowing down when I use a decent depth of cut and high speed where I assume there is less torque available. But the finish is pretty ordinary if you use them like you would HSS.

Grinding a HSS tool that cuts isn't that hard. Perhaps grinding one that gives the finish you want isn't quite so easy. I'm a very unskilled amateur and seem to be getting away with it.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by David Taylor on 12/03/2018 04:32:27:

… The upside down parting tool holder on the other hand, I love it. I recommend it if your chuck doesn't screw on.

…

Unless one can cut from the other side, of course?

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Martin Newbold on 11/03/2018 11:01:37:

my ford carbon tipped tools.

Not come across these but, as the only form of carbon hard enough would be diamond I guess they are rather expensive

Russell

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by David Taylor on 12/03/2018 04:32:27:

I bought a tangential tool holder but never really got enthusiastic about it.

That’s unusual, not heard anyone on here before that didn’t like theirs. I wonder why, have you got the top angle correct?

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Plenty of conventional right hand turning insert holders, boring bars and inserts (CCMT 060204) are available on banggood's website (**LINK**) very cheaply (rather bizarrely under electronics/mechanical parts!) but for anything out of the ordinary like left-hand tooling or holders that use the 100 degree corner then you'll have to pay UK prices from someone like ARC or RDG.

I now tend to rough out with cheap TCT and then turn to a finish with M42 HSS either a normal toolbit or a shop-made tangential holder with M42 HSS. This combo works well for me on mild steel or stainless.

HTH

Jon

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Only buy banggood if you can afford to throw them away if they turn out to be rubbish. Cutting tools are not too bad a risk but taking a chance on morse taper tooling might be very expensive if, as I found (before it actually damaged the Morse socket), the taper was not a recognised Morse angle – it rattled!

Their customer service was about zero on a scale of 0-100, too.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

LH CCMT0602 holder (SCLCL1010H06) for approx. £6.09 inc post: **LINK**

Centre tool position SCMCN1010H06 (inc insert) for £4.99 inc post : **LINK**

Those are 2 sales I've actually bought from, and they took about 2 weeks to delivery. I use cskwin2015 for a fair few of my tools. Seems to have some better prices than Banggood and more logical naming structure. However, to get the best prices it's always a case of looking for the right thing at the right time (like Aldi).

Regards,

Richard

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Posted by richardandtracy on 12/03/2018 12:19:57:

LH CCMT0602 holder (SCLCL1010H06) for approx. £6.09 inc post: **LINK**

Centre tool position SCMCN1010H06 (inc insert) for £4.99 inc post : **LINK**

Those are 2 sales I've actually bought from, and they took about 2 weeks to delivery. I use cskwin2015 for a fair few of my tools. Seems to have some better prices than Banggood and more logical naming structure. However, to get the best prices it's always a case of looking for the right thing at the right time (like Aldi).

Regards,

Richard

I couldn't agree more, I've bought from this Ebay seller, (and plenty of others), everything has been very good.

Jim

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by mechman48 on 11/03/2018 12:58:26:

I tend to use the tangential tool most of the time as it deal with all metals satisfactorily, except cast iron for which I have a couple of brazed carbide tip tools.

George.

I forgot to add, someone gave me some broken solid carbide 1/4 end mills which fit perfectly into the Eccentric Engineering Tangential tool. Ground to the correct top rake it will happily take the hard skin off cast iron and can easily be reground if the edge dulls. Just a thought if you happen across some used carbide of the right size!

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

I used the grinding jig that comes with the tangential toolholder so I assume the angles are ok.

I just seem to get better results with a normal HSS tool ground to 'about right' shape. I can also easily use a no top rake tool for cast iron and non-ferrous metal.

Re putting the upside down parting tool holder behind the work, yes that will work too but if you've made a rear tool post I assumed you wouldn't need the tool holder.

Another thing I'd recommend is a quick change tool holder. I ignored them years figuring they couldn't be that useful but bought myself one as a birthday present a few years ago and it's great. So easy to adjust the tool height to get it on center so easy to swap between tools. I never even bought more holders because I'm cheap but I'd like more than the 3 or 4 I have.

Boring bars for replacable carbide tips are another thing I've come to love. I got sick of grinding HSS boring tools (which I find much more difficult than a normal outside tool) and the little bars are great.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/03/2018 20:04:36:

Most carbide tipped tools are supplied as unground blanks.

Most suppliers don't state this.

Most purchasers don't realise this.

Hence most users think they are crap because they are trying to cut using tools with negative front clearance, which is like trying to thread a rope through a needle…

Neil

Well I never. Is that true of the sets though? Starting up with a new mini-lathe I bought some very like this from MachineMart:

They seemed to cut OK. After a while I decided they were neither fish nor fowl, combining the disadvantages of HSS and Carbide in one convenient tool! (I find HSS is easier to sharpen than carbide, produces a good finish and isn't fussy about cutting rates. Inserts don't need sharpening at all, and – big advantage – changing one doesn't disturb the tool settings. The downside of inserts is they like to be worked much harder than HSS. Also they have a pronounced sweet-spot such that not using them "correctly" is liable to produce an inferior finish.)

I've never tried a carbide tipped shank that didn't come from a pre-shaped set. Am I missing out on a useful option?

Dave

[HillclimberParticipant @hillclimber]

I am defo at 'level 1' in terms of understanding/ grinding HSS. So I have taken solace in small, indexable carbide tools. But I have supplemented these with a few HSS inserts that fit these from A R Warner. I swap them around when I need an assured finish….

http://www.arwarnerco.com/

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

Neil's point would explain my experience with the only brazed carbide tip tool I ever bought.

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