Benches

[david lockwoodParticipant @davidlockwood10028]

Steel or wood

[david lockwoodParticipant @davidlockwood10028]

hello all, I am about to start making my workshop benches as I had to take the others down, so I am wondering which material would be best for my mill bench and an assembly bench.

 

I am convinced that wood is better for a manual work bench as the steel one I made vibrates horribly when I saw something in the vice.

 

I would very much like to be able to get the mill bench and assembly bench very level or at least get the mill level on jacking screws, so I can try using my precision level to set jobs up. this may seem a redundant point but on past experience the bench has to be very rigid or the machine moves in and out of level when moving other things around the bench or leaning on it et cetera, also I wonder if a wooden bench will warp and twist as the moisture levels change

 

as an extra point i will need to have shelves under the benches but these could be on a separate frame so as to keep weight changes off the bench when loading and unloading the shelves

 

if any one has any thoughts on the mater or any bench making tips these would be very much appreciated

 

thanks in advance David

[James fortinParticipant @jamesfortin46829]

to mount my bench lathe i laminated together 2 thick 8’x2′ loft boards, topped with laminate flooring it provides a good sturdy surface to work on. just be sure to use lots of glue ,clamps, and screws

 

i also made my workbenches this way but with only one layer or loftboard but still topped with laminate floor

 

james

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I made all my work benches using 2×3 framing. that for the mini lathe has just a veneered chipboard top, but the mill one has kitchen worktop to give a very solid, flat surface.

 

Neil

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

Mine is made from 2 old railway sleepers topped with 1″ marine ply this is supported by 2x 9″ blockwork piers which are tied into the wall of the workshop.

It might sound overkill but my main reason for something this solid was so the Denbigh fly press mounted on it didn’t move.

 

Regards

 

Paul

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

David,

 

IKEA sell some (fairly) reasonably priced 35mm thick beech block worktops that makes nice bench tops. Donkey’s years ago Tubal Cain wrote a series of articles in ME about setting up his Lake District workshop and described the wooden benches he made to support his various machines. He was meticulous about having his kit properly aligned. Might be worth seeking out – it would have been in the early seventies I think.

 

cheers,

 

Rod

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by david lockwood on 08/09/2011 20:50:18:

hello all, I am about to start making my workshop benches as I had to take the others down, so I am wondering which material would be best for my mill bench and an assembly bench.

 

I am convinced that wood is better for a manual work bench as the steel one I made vibrates horribly when I saw something in the vice.

 

I would very much like to be able to get the mill bench and assembly bench very level or at least get the mill level on jacking screws, so I can try using my precision level to set jobs up. this may seem a redundant point but on past experience the bench has to be very rigid or the machine moves in and out of level when moving other things around the bench or leaning on it et cetera, also I wonder if a wooden bench will warp and twist as the moisture levels change

 

as an extra point i will need to have shelves under the benches but these could be on a separate frame so as to keep weight changes off the bench when loading and unloading the shelves

 

if any one has any thoughts on the mater or any bench making tips these would be very much appreciated

 

thanks in advance David

 

David

 

Wood construction is preferable in my mind. If the bench and top are reasonably solid and all its feet are packed so that they are doing their fair share of supporting the load, then regardless of wherever you place heavy item they should not affect the levelness? of the top surface.

 

The above assumes that the floor is solid! Walking round a room with a normal suspended wooden floor after placing an engineers level on a central table will show just how flexible 8×2 joists are.

 

Ian P

[david lockwoodParticipant @davidlockwood10028]

as it happens I have some railway sleepers but I promesed them to a friend befor I needed to make the bench

I had conciderd a ply top, one nice thing about roled steel top though is that, the one I have used at least, is so flat that I have hardly used my suface plate since I put it up

Ian yes the floor is solid, concrete

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Just put your steel sheet on top of the ply on top of the sleepers.

 

Pete

[david lockwoodParticipant @davidlockwood10028]

well that sound about solid enough for me and if there’s ever an air raid I suppose I can get under it I am still wondering if warping might be a problem though

[russellParticipant @russell]

i used 8 x 3 redgum sleepers, with a leg frame of 4 x3 hardwood. Really hard wood, with a handsaw..

 

i was too impatient, and it warped after i first leveled it (and the glue joints split), i then drilled through horizontally and used all-thread to bolt it up. I can hammer on the middle, with no jumping. (and its almost impossible to move.

 

I should relevel the top and put a smooth top – laminate, masonite, etc.

 

regards

 

russell

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

The most important aspect of any new bench is the design. It should be properly constructed and braced. My own bench has dovetail joints of the cross rails into the top of the legs the lower cross rails are mortice and tenon into the legs. The logitudinals are cut into the legs all joints glued and where appropriate screwed. Diagonal cross braces along the back and either end ply faces. Dont forget to put a back on it and a kick board on the front, this prevents things disapearing down the back and underneath. My top is two laminations of 18mm MDF the first is screwed to the framework of the bench, the second lamination is glued and screwed to the first.. The whole top is then covered in LINO, yes, the stuff you put on the floor. The front edge of the bench is then fitted with a lipping of hardwood. Height of the bench should be, with the top of your vice at the same height as the underneath of your bent elbow when standing. A lot of work, not really 2/3 days for me, and I am not a chippy. Fit the shelves to the bench, it will all add to the rigidity. Ignore warping for the bench, at the end of the day it is only a bench. For a machine stand it is a slightly different position, the only thing you can do is try to limit variations in humidity and temperature. I never hammer directly onto the bench, get a piece of boiler plate 20/25 mm thick approx 250 mm square, if you can get it plough ground so much the better, hammer on that, it will spread the load over the bench.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

One of my benches has a top made by glueing 3 x 2 together to form a solid top just like the block worktop really, but because of the random orientation of the grain, very stable. It also just happens to have a steel channel girder underneath, which the lathe is bolted to and leveled from, equally large legs and framing,massive Yes, moves? No!

Edited By KWIL on 09/09/2011 11:00:28

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I have two Beech Block worktops, both of which have split and de-laminated. They also sag in the middle!

These were about £275 when new so not a good purchase.

For the drill and other machines I made a solid wood bench with 4 x 4 legs and side rails, the top is thick plywood/blockboard.

Machines sit over the legs.

 

Clive

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

Hi , Ive got three workbenches, the long one is made of 1 1/2″ ply, supported by 6, 4×4 legs braced with 1/2″ form work ply, ie thats the one coated with varnish, all up its 7′ long by 4′ wide, 2 vices and the drill are bolted to it, plus the small home made lathe. thus its very solid, so much so I can bend and hammer 1/2″ steel rod in the big vice, and nothing moves. I got the timber for free years ago. The other bench is 5’x4′ topped with a piece of 50mm thick bench top,(off cut from a building site) I made two large drawers 300mm deep to store pits and pieces for the tool and cutter thats mounted on the right hand side, the spare space was for drawing on, thats the theory, but I tend to drop and leave things on it, so I do the drawings on the 3/4 snooker table thats also in the workshop. The third bench is for the small Sieg X2 mill that was on a lathe, (brought that off e/bay) as I was starting to make a milling machine, I had some 1 1/2″ thick walled pipe and some 50mm square tubing, the top is welded up 50mm square and has two extra braces, that is welded to the round pipe for the legs, and cross braces, with 16mm chip board screwed to the sides and back, it has two large swing door cupboards in the lower section and six draws for collets end mills etc etc. this mill stand/cupboard has adjustable jacks welded to the bottom of the legs, again nothing moves, solid as the proverbial rock, As an aside, I made up and welded 10mm and 16mm box section thats welded to the 50mm top frame, to mount the Sieg X2 onto, drilled and tapped to take the base of the mill, the cross slide is a large one ie 450×250 thats mounted on 45mm angle which is also welded to the top braces. So what is the best,????? steel or wood, the large bench did shrink and needed redoing, the steel one is very,very solid, but because its welded and purpose built, would need a lot of work to modify it, if needs be, (I know cause I am lowering the angle under the cross slide, so the it will run under the mill support base). Go around building sites, and look into skips, you might make a bench up for next to nothing.

John Holloway

[StovepipeParticipant @stovepipe]

6″x2″‘s mounted on 3″x2″ framing, with a sheet of thin ply on the top, which can be renewed when it gets too disgusting (tea stains by the dozen) for use. No discernible sag so far (it’s on a concrete floor).

 

Dennis

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Just as a general point, think carefully about the height of the bench before you build it. In the past I have built them too low, with the result they have given me bachache through having to adopt a stooped position. Don’t know about other folks, but I like to have whatever I am working on at about elbow height when I am standing up. If I am able to work sitting down, I have a high stool.

As for materials, mine has 2×3 wooden legs, and a top made of two layers of 3/4in exterior quality ply, glued and screwed together. Probably an expensive way of doing things, but the ply was left over from another job. Plenty of 2×1 diagonal bracing between the legs, and it is very solid.

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

Don’t use beech, it moves with the seasons. I once bought a (expensive) laminated beech cabinetmakers’ bench. Three months after I got it, the thing had domed across the width and was difficult to use. I planed it flat, by hand, and three months later it had dished the other way.

 

My machine shop benches are topped with two layers of 18mm mdf laminated together and treated with finishing oil, supported on a frame made from 75mm square softwood with mortice and tenon joints. Like Dusty, I put an upstand on them to stop stuff slipping down the back and sides and then borrowed an idea from a clockmaker’s bench and routed a 12mm groove along the top front to stop small components rolling off. I only work to a small scale so The Myford sits on its own steel stand and the micro-mill and toyo lathe sit on the mdf. I once made a functional and sturdy bench top from 3×2 softwood laminated side to side and surfaced with 18mm mdf. That worked well for years.

 

HTH

[KMPParticipant @kmp]

I find this thread interesting as I am in the process of tearing down my own benches and machine stands of the past 15 years to allow some work in the roof. I’m no expert on bench design and no woodworker either so my experience may be somewhat “individual”. I have a mixture of benches, wood and metal frames and tops both homemade and bought in that have evolved over the years as I gained experience or had problems.

My assembly, gash or manual work bench, started life as a very solid (I thought) wooden framework of 4×2 and 4×4 legs glued and screwed with a ¾” plywood top braced by 3x2s. After a few years of hammering and banging, pulling and bending in the vice the thing wobbled about like a cork in water. The next bench was (and still is) a Dexion (angle iron with holes), braced frame, bolted to the concrete floor and rear wall with a 1” thick blockboard top covered in cheap hardboard which has been replaced several times. This bench has survived some serious abuse and is as stable as when built. I started with metal shelves under but the noise and tendency for things to bounce saw a change to thick chipboard floor panels braced with more Dexion to stop it sagging. When I rebuild this it will be the same construction.

The stand for my RF25 mill followed a similar development, initially wooden with 4×2” and 3×3” frames and 1” marine ply top, it was beautifully built by a friend (professional woodworker) and seemed totally solid. As my experience with the mill grew and I started to push its’ capability the stand proved very flexible and seemed to “spring” particularly under heavy or interrupted cuts. I replaced this with a simple welded steel box section stand of 50x50x2mm (sorry for the mixed measurements) uprights with 50x25x1mm horizontals and some 25x25x1mm bracing. The sides and back have 1mm steel sheet welded to the frame and this increased rigidity substantially. The top and shelves are 1mm steel with chipboard liners; the top is further braced with 50x50x6mm box section where the mill bolts through on typical leveling screws. While a little noisy until full of junk this has proven totally satisfactory with no signs of movement after the initial setup even with a much heavier mill.

I have had both success and frustrations with some of my “bought in” benches which I have to say were never the most expensive. I think it was Stan Bray who recommended in MEW a cheap (at the time) workbench available from Machine Mart. I bought one and put my Super 7 on it with some trepidation. While it has a thick solid wooden top, the uprights, sides and shelves are thin sheet steel bolted together with 6mm bolts and it looks very flimsy to me. I did add some angle iron bracing where the lathe bolts through. I know it shouldn’t work but it has, very successfully, with the exception of the one drawer which becomes difficult to open with more than two chucks in it. It will be replaced during the rebuild as it is really too deep for the Myford and space is becoming an issue. I can’t recommend the current offerings as they appear to have changed, the tops are certainly different and the steel appears even thinner but I have never measured it. I had planned to replace it with a genuine Myford stand but the lottery win has eluded me so it will be out with the welder again.

I also bought a woodworking bench from B&Q when we moved into the house 18 years ago, they were on offer at £25 each and stacked floor to ceiling. I often wish I had bought 6 of them, made from 4×2 glued and screwed together, including the top, it has been superb. The only issue is that over the years the top planks have moved and are as much as 6mm apart in places. When I reinstall this I will plane it flat and add an 18mm ply top.

So, I am now a fan of metal stands/benches for machine stands and where a vice is to be mounted. I add thick wooden tops which I find reduce the noise but bolt through to the steel frame where stability and rigidity are important. I also find that bolting to the floor or wall where possible adds greatly to the overall strength of the bench.

Regards

Keith

[StovepipeParticipant @stovepipe]

Supporting Mike’s observation, I bought recently a high padded back bar stool from Argos, quite strong, stable, and supportive. Goes well with my bench height of 33″.

 

Dennis

 

[Gordon FrenchParticipant @gordonfrench97232]

I have built three 3 shelf benches using Simpson Strong-tie plates. (see

Amazon item:

Simpson Strong-Tie KWB1 Workbench Kit

This kit uses the plates that are available separately. They are extremely strong and

fairly cheap.

 

Gordon French

Roseburg, Oregon USA

 

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

We have been trying to buy old wooden railway sleepers for a petanque (Boule) pitch surround, and the H&S gremlins have moved to this quiet corner of France. Because they were creosoted 50 years ago, they are now unsafe to sell as they could contain carseogenic oils (Creosote !!!) – I remember when creosote was used in medication !!

 

As for work benches, 2 inch thick Oak planks on 3inch square legs do it for me – absorbs vibrations.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I’ll echo Mike’s comment about height. Mine are all a good 36″ high. even my ‘electronics’ bench, built using a cheap chipboard desk has a ‘false’ upper surface 5″ above the original one.

 

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

My main bench is made from 2″ x 8″ pine with 4″ x 4″ pine legs, with 4″ x 1″ bracing. The vice is mounted directly over one of the legs, one bolt each side, and one at the back. The othe bench is an old shop counter. I built a bench with 50 mm x 6 mm angle iron for my lathe (380 Kg), all the metal was cut by hand hacksaw, its solid, survives earthquakes, checked the levels and it has not moved. When the workshop was built, the area where the lathe is had double depth of concrete, and extra reinforcing. To level the finished bench I had to shim the tail stock end 1.5 mm. Ian S C

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Thanks Ian – forgot to mention the bit about the vice being over a leg. If the best vice position turns out not to be over a leg, then fix an extra leg underneath it, and fix the leg to the floor with an angle bracket to resist lifting forces. I know I abuse my vice, using it as a press, an anvil, and for cold-bending some quite big lumps of steel bar and plate.

[Author]

Posts