At my Whits End :(

[Ryan CurnowParticipant @ryancurnow14196]

Hi Guys,

Need some advice, In the Summer I purchased a 3.5" Maisie and she was amazing, the only things being a little dodgey was the Injector.

The last two steam ups have been a nightmare! For some reason the Axle Pump stopped working and the injector fully (Both run of different Clack's) and then all the Clacks wouldn't seal, which I managed to solve by cleaning and re balling.

I have taken the injector of and cleaned using vinger and refitted but still no joy the water and steam just pour out of the overflow, also I have tried repacking the Axle Pump and still no joy to remove the Axle pump I will have to drop the wheels which I think is a little too tech for me.

Any help would be greatfully received,

Cheers Ryan

[Ryan CurnowParticipant @ryancurnow14196]

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Ryan

Try looking at the inlet and outlet valves (clacks) on the axle pump. They are just as prone to furring as those on the boiler, remember your cold water stop cock at home, the minute you need to use it it is furred up solid. I have gone over to mushroom valves with an 'o' ring seal.

[Ryan CurnowParticipant @ryancurnow14196]

Thanks Dusty for such a quick response, I will be sure to have a look this evening and will report back.

[Ryan CurnowParticipant @ryancurnow14196]

Hi Dusty,

Checked both balls and they seem to be fine, I have tried to run the engine on air and there is no suction what so ever from the pump? I have also tried blowing down the pimp which is like blowing air against a brick wall? Any ideas?

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Ryan

Did you have water in the pump and have it connected to a supply?. I would next check the seats on which the balls seat in the axle pump, if they are O.K. then I am afraid it is a complete strip down including the pipe work. Oh and don't forget to check that the eccentric is secure on the axle that drives the pump.

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Hello Ryan,

Going back to first principles, the locomotive was a good runner when you got her which indicates there isn't too much wrong. Firstly, the axle pump, start by filling the tender and checking there is a reasonable flow from the appropiate connection. Next disconnect the union on the pump inlet and see if that same flow rate occurs at the pump, should all that be in order, then the inlet ball is stuck on it's seat. There are several ways of dealing with that, you could undo the seat from the pump body and release the ball that way, but a couple of ways that may work are to give the bottom of the pump inlet a sharp tap using a small hammer and a copper drift, or some times pouring a kettle of boiling water over the pump will release the balls! Once you think the inlet is free open the by-pass and with a water supply connected to the pump turn the engine over, the pump will force a stuck outlet ball off it's seat and water will be directed out of the by-pass connection. Should you have to take out the inlet ball seat it may be worth popping it in the lathe and drilling right through, tapping the underside say 4BA and fitting a plug, so at any time later the should same situation occur it's easier to take the plug out and push the ball off its seat with a match stick.

The injector, if it was working before it should only need sitting in a drop of pickle, kettle descaler is my favoured method. Again check the water flow from the tender and remember it is imperitive there are no air leaks in the water supply line, check the filter in the tender sometimes the crud builds up on the filter and they will work like a tube so whilst there maybe a couple of inches of water in the tender there may only be a fraction over the top of the filter and air is then drawn into the injector supply pipe. Again check the the flow through the delivery pipe; I'll sometimes make a connection to the mains water supply via a modified garden hose connection when checking water supplies on our miniature steam locomotives, always useful.

Anyhow, best of luck; I consider Maisie one of the finest designs the old chap gave us, i've seen them from the dog rough to medal winners, but the all go well. take a little look at this Youtube clip, wonderful: –

http://www.youtube.com/user/ianp6155?blend=6&ob=5

Regards,

Bob Youldon

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi ryan,

bob's advice is excellent! spot on! on MAISEE the bottom of the pump where the inlet ball sits unscrews and this should be easy to do. i regularly had the same problem on one when the water dried out in the bottom of the pump so before each steam up blew through the water feed pipe from the loco drag box with all the steam valves open on the boiler and if the ball was stuck had to do what bob describes. the top ball on the pump never stuck.

i had a standard 24 oz pm injector fitted behind the lefthand cab step with nice easy runs of pipework and despite relatively small check valves (5/32" ball on a 1/8" dia seat) the injector always worked perfectly. i fitted a quarter turn water valve on the tender and the filter was on a pipe bent over horizontal in the tender water space, thus avoiding one of the problems bob mentions.

incidentally mine had the original design non-combustion chamber boiler rather than the later version described in the book. having driven both types i would say that there was no need for the combustion chamber. this might be of interest to anyone thinking of building a boiler for MAISEE.

cheers,

julian

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Ryan ,

Odd that pump and injector both failed at the same time . Suggests that something specific happened on one occassion rather than general long term gunging .

No way of knowing without seeing engine but it is possible that a slug of something nasty was in the tender and found its way down the pipework to both pump and injector at the same time .

Before doing anything else check that tender filter is working properly – no holes and no blockages .

Pickling injector may not be enough if there is actually a bit of scale jammed in the jets . Clean it again very carefully then clear the jets out with a bit of fine soft wire .

Where do you live ?? – just general area . Someone nearby could probably help with personal visit .

Regards ,

MikeW

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Julian, re loco name Maisie, why the emphasis on MAISEE? just curious.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i always type loco names in capitals. its a throwback to don young's LLAS magazine.

[Ryan CurnowParticipant @ryancurnow14196]

Thanks guys for you suggestions, I am please to say I have done it . What I did was because I have a Catheter at present fitted (long story) I took a new bag and made a connection to fit it to the axle pump feed, filled the bag up with white vinegar and hotish water, blow air in to the bag and opened the drain tap, undone the water feed to the axle pump until the water started pouring through, reconnected and left over night and it WORKED!

As the bag was able to hold small pressure it forced its way through the system and now its like new So happy thanks guys

Just the injector left to do, if I wanted to buy a new one what size and where would I buy it as the current injector has two different pipe sizes smallish one for steam and water and a larger size thread for water to boiler?

Cheers Ryan

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

Hi Ryan

You didn't say where abouts you live. If you live down in the south East of England, the water get really hard and you need to avoid the tap water. It furs up everything, pipes injectors, valve seats, the lot.

Some have the luxury of soft water, its what dreams are made of.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Simple, reasonably priced, works: **LINK**

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Wow..I had assumed you guys ran your locos on distilled water anyway……
Surprised.

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

We use filtered rainwater (just a mesh and simple filter to stop the leaves and beetles etc) and any further south I'd be paddling to the Isle of Wight.

Never had a problem with scaling from a 3.5g Titch and Maisie, up to the larger 5" locos and associated steam wagons.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi Lofty76,

i dont know for for how long and how often you run your TICH and MAISEE, but portsmouth water is the same as supplied to much of the IW, and it is definitely a hard water area. you wont necessarily notice a problem, but please keep under review!

cheers,

julian

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

Hertfordshire water is almost liquid chalk, Cambridgeshire isn't too bad.

My 3.5 Netta has an 11oz injector, which is more than enough to use when stationary.. I rely on the axle pump mostly.

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Hi Julian, hard water in the Portsmouth area comes from the aquifers under the south downs which are chalk based and contain around 350 ppm Total Dissolved Solids in the form of calciates and other minerals.

Rainwater is slightly acid and does not contain the calciates that comes from the domestic taps so therefore no scaling takes place. It also helps if the boiler is blown down before it fully cools if hard water is used to prevent the formation of scale.

MAISIE and Tich were completed around 1990 and have been steamed regularly, MAISIE regularly pulling passengers on our club track for three to four hours at a time. Tich was the large boiler version but was not a particularly good steamer so was mostly used as a showpiece.

Neither have required any form of chemical clean.

In addition to our rainwater collection facilities (four gutter fed IBC's) we also purchased a mains water softener which I can heartily recommend as a valuable asset to any club inventory.

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

/moved to water gauge thread .

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 14/12/2013 23:32:42

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