Antique Steam Engine from Doorknob

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I assume that the gear is on the crankshaft, and drives the small flywheel at increased speed. Love it, it's a great model from the past.

Ian S C

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

I'm thinking about taking it to AR actually, trying to dig up some more info about Richard Westerman now. Ancestry.com is amazing – I'm back in the 1770s already, I only started half an hour ago!

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

On the cross head on the opposite side from the fly wheel is what looks like a mounting for another rod. It looks like it could be in line with the lever. Could there be a rod missing that operated the lever?

Where is the valve gear?

I would so love to take it apart.

Has anyone else noted the irony of a door knob engine on the same day as a post about door knob collars?

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

It's hard to understand. How does the valve gear work? Presumably it has to be in the cylindrical casing underneath the cylinder itself, but what operates it?.

Anything it powers would seem to have to run from the rimmed wheel driven from the toothed flywheel. From the large gear ratio the rimmed wheel must run much faster, and the conrod and crosshead guides are so thin that there can be little resistance.

I'm guessing steam comes up from the big onion vessel and is exhausted through the near-horizontal pipe?

So many questions…

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

I took it that the brass wheel is the fly wheel and is geared up from the crank to give enough momentum.

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

Just found out Richard Westerman was a watchmaker! He was born in 1801 and died in 1872. In the 1861 census he is a Retired Watchmaker in Woodhouse Grove, Leeds.

 

Edited By Michael Hudson 6 on 16/05/2019 13:29:11

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Watchmaker would explain the fine work then.

Re valve gear: I was assuming the crank arm on the opposite side to the gear and flywheel would operate some kind of rotary valve inside the brass body? But maybe not?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by AdrianR on 16/05/2019 13:03:31:

On the cross head on the opposite side from the fly wheel is what looks like a mounting for another rod. It looks like it could be in line with the lever. Could there be a rod missing that operated the lever?

Yes I see the empty boss on the cross head arm but can't see a hole in that brass flange amidships that would allow a link rod to pass through and connect with the mystery lever on top of the boiler. Maybe obscured by the Photobucket watermark?? And hard to see how that fitting would operate any valve gear upstairs in the cylinder base.

Fascinatinger and fascinatinger.

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

Thanks so much for your interest guys. I've just written to AR so we'll see if they have anything to say. I'll try and attend the one near me (South Wales) in July whether they do or not.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Hudson 6 on 16/05/2019 13:22:31:

Just found out Richard Westerman was a watchmaker! He was born in 1801 and died in 1872. In the 1861 census he is a Retired Watchmaker in Woodhouse Grove, Leeds.

.

**LINK**

http://www.dragonantiques2.co.uk/EBIMAGE/jan04/leedslcase.asp

MichaelG.

.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yqmfKmqupLAC&pg=RA1-PA251&lpg=RA1-PA251&dq=Richard+Westerman,+watchmaker,+leeds&source=bl&ots=C_qdvIQ4t0&sig=ACfU3U3dEOitnuA4IrNFft6to8IBZd2HEw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlg_aolKDiAhX8SRUIHb84Bb4Q6AEwC3oECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Westerman%2C%20watchmaker%2C%20leeds&f=false

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/05/2019 14:36:12

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

Wow! that is amazing!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

You might try contacting your local model engineering club and get an experienced model engine builder to take a look at it in the flesh for you. They would be able to tell if something is missing and know how to get it running. Unless there is someone on here who lives near you?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by AdrianR on 16/05/2019 13:03:31:

On the cross head on the opposite side from the fly wheel is what looks like a mounting for another rod. It looks like it could be in line with the lever. Could there be a rod missing that operated the lever?

Where is the valve gear?

I would so love to take it apart.

Has anyone else noted the irony of a door knob engine on the same day as a post about door knob collars?

Hi, the lever looks to me, as if it has part of it broken off it, I guessing that being that this valve, (if that is what it is) and is attached to the boiler, is a safety valve and would have had a small weight hanging on the lever somewhere on the part that is maybe broken off.

Lovely looking engine, pity there isn't any drawings available, as I have a couple of these fancy doorknobs.

Regards Nick.

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

Hi all, two updates: that clock made by the same Richard Westerman is actually still for sale, and I just bought it! eek. Still for sale as in – by coincidence the same shop has just bought it back in part exchange from the last person who bought it 10 years ago. Crazy.

Also I had a closer look at the area under the cylinder, and there is a small hole on the same side as the empty boss on the cross head (I'm borrowing terminology from the posts above). Also on that side there is a small notch on the upper flange of the area under the cylinder. I couldn't imagine a notch like that would be a mistake, so perhaps it was giving clearance to another rod. I'll post a couple of pictures up in a bit.

I had a careful look and couldn't see anything rotating inside the small hole, I thought it might be an inlet valve.

Edited By Michael Hudson 6 on 17/05/2019 10:13:19

Edited By Michael Hudson 6 on 17/05/2019 10:13:44

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Interesting. Yes please do post pics of the small hole etc.

I wonder if the valve mechanism was modelling on an early full-sized steam engine of some sort? Might have to have a look around see if anything similar can be found.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Hudson 6 on 17/05/2019 10:11:55:

Hi all, two updates: that clock made by the same Richard Westerman is actually still for sale, and I just bought it! eek. Still for sale as in – by coincidence the same shop has just bought it back in part exchange from the last person who bought it 10 years ago. Crazy.

.

Well done

It must be destiny.

MichaelG.

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

heres a photo of the small hole, the notch can be seen here too, and in some of the photos from above I posted earlier, it turns out

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Michael, maybe there is an adjusting screw for something in the hole. The notch could just be an alinement mark, or possibly for a C spanner if that section is screwed in.

Regards Nick.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Michael, looking at the photos again, that notch looks to be in line with the bush without anything in it. Perhaps there should be a rod down from the bush to a lever, that would be operating a spindle that goes in the hole and controls the valve gear and the notch would be for the rod to clear.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 17/05/2019 19:27:27

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

Yeah I thought that too but I can’t see how anything connected in line with the notch wouldn’t interfere with the crank arm?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Hudson 6 on 17/05/2019 21:31:55:

Yeah I thought that too but I can’t see how anything connected in line with the notch wouldn’t interfere with the crank arm?

I wondered if there's a second missing or hidden crank that should be mounted coaxially on the same axle as the main crank. Like the hour and minute hands, a clock maker might think of that as a cunning way of passing an up-down stroke to a valve under the piston. The valve? rod might move safely in the slot behind the rotating crank.

The plate with two screws might cover access to the valve gear.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 17/05/2019 21:58:23

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Hudson 6 on 16/05/2019 11:28:06:

… The newspaper article mentions that the "needle-like eccentric has recently become detached". To me it all looks in place – and I know it's run since the article was written – does it look like anything might be missing?

Hard to tell what some mechanically illiterate journalist was trying to say 100 years ago. But, that small boss with the hole in it on the cross-head does look sort of needle-ish size. But, it obviously is not designed to allow whatever fits in it to pivot in the manner of the other two rods connecting to the crank arm and crank gear. Whatever fitted in there, if anything, would have had to run in a straight up and down motion. Which matches with the small notch cut in the brass flange directly below it, possibly for clearance of whatever "needle" went up and down there.

But then what did it do? Sure looks tight for space in there for any kind of crank arm or eccentric to operate behind that existing crank arm. Possibly a small disc or crank sticking out that mystery hole below the crank, which was pushed in one direction by the descending "needle" from above then returned somehow to position by being caught by the rotating main crank arm? All getting a bit Heath Robinish but have you ever seen inside an old clock?

What diameter is the doorknob? Just trying to get a better idea of the scale of all those tiny bits.

One thing you could do is take that filler screw out of the "boiler" (doorknob) and connect up a piece of plastic tubing etc and try blowing in there while rotating the flywheel. You should be able to feel if any valve action is going on inside that large cylinder by internal means that we can't see from the outside.

Other than that, very careful disassembly and inspection would be the only way to figure out how the valve gear works and how it might have been operated. That really should be done by someone with experience in small model or clock making work. It would be a shame to have such a gem damaged by inexperienced "wrenching".

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Have any of the 3D CAD enthusiasts started modelling this machine yet ?

… It would seem an ideal subject.

MichaelG.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Michael Hudson 6 on 17/05/2019 21:31:55:

Yeah I thought that too but I can’t see how anything connected in line with the notch wouldn’t interfere with the crank arm?

Hi, what about a rack and pinion arrangement instead of a lever. Is the plate with the two screws complete or has something broken off it perhaps? as the bottom edge doesn't look as straight and neat as the top.

Regards Nick.

[Michael Hudson 6Participant @michaelhudson6]

Hi Sorry for the delay replying. The doorknob is about 2 inches diameter, not a big doorknob at all.

I removed the screws from "the plate with two screws" (carefully!) hoping the plate was simply a cover but the crank passes through it so the screws went back in before anything got bent.

I removed the old brasso marks with a turps-based cleaner and it doesn't look to me as though anything around that area is missing. I think the area behind the crank arm on that side (without the flywheel) is too tight for a coaxial gear, and the thing you can see in the photos is a tiny pin that is fastening the crank arm to the crank, or rather wedging it tight against the end of the crank.

The small lever under the main cylinder rotates on a wedge shaped pin; it doesn't seem to me to be made for frequent movement, or it would be on a cylindrical shaft. The range of motion is quite wide – it moves from about 20 degrees past vertical towards the centre of the engine, down to horizontal outwards. So I'm inclined to agree with the idea that it's some kind of relief valve. But I'm no expert! The end of it doesn't look broken to me but shaped to allow a fingernail or similar to pull it back down.

I like the idea of using air to get a feel for the operation. I am still looking for a piece of tubing that will fit the filler hole!

[Author]

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