Amadeal lathes – Any good??

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

I love my boxford 380IS its s completely different lathe to a Chinese import a friend had an armadeal lathe & he sold it after using my boxford. He said he did not realise what he was missing untill he used the boxford 380IS, he now had a boxford STS. Mini lathes are good to learn on but they have far to many draw backs, are hard work & simply not up to the job, a cheaper used British lathe is x10 the quality of a import

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppose to some extent it depends what the job is. Certainly a Mini-lathe would not be the ideal choice for a 1/3rd scale traction engine but they are capable of making smaller models.

My own Chinese import was bought for the job of model engineering specifically stationary steam, IC, hot air, etc. 58 engines and counting suggests to me it is upto that job.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Even though I agree with you Mark you are brave putting your head above the parapet!!!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Would also be interested to see what the 380IS looks like as I’ve not heard of that one before, only 250, 280 and 330 versions.

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Apologies it was a typing error, I ment boxford 330IS, it has a 13″ swing & 30″ between the centers but could be a bit big for some but another one I can recommend is a boxford TH10.20 (just sold this yesterday on ebay) it’s alot smaller than the 330is but would be a better option than mini lathe & while it’s small enough it is very rigid & you won’t have any issues with parting off. I added a power feed to this with a hand controller </p>

[Mark Hall]

On Mark Hall Said:

I added a power feed to this with a hand controller </p>

How do you disengage the leadscrew/fed shaft when it is not being used? Also is it just a feed screw or or ELS that can do screwcutting etc.

At least a mini-lathe will screw cut and has power feed as standard😂

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

To use it manually yes you can disengage the power feed & and yes with the ELS it can screw cut, my point is there are better alternatives, a mini lathe reminded me of a toy the belt that drives it is extrealy thin ,I’ve owned 2 mini/import  lathes one was a clarke CL300M with 300mm between centers then being nieve & listening to recommendations i brought a import with 750mm between centers thinking because it was larger it would be more rigid , it wasnt & they were both awful to use, yes they can do what you need albeit badly & very slowly with chatter ,they are underpowered & not rigid at all but i agree they have there place because they are good to learn on, I have since sold the TH10.20 & now have it’s bigger brother the 330IS but all the x10 series are better options & can be found used for the same price as a import/mini lathe. They have a larger capacity, D1-3 spindle nose, you can take large roughing cuts of needed, there is no flex in the tool post or any of the parts ,it won’t fall apart as they don’t have plastic parts & they will last you another 40 years of daily use & you won’t have to be looking for upgrades like mini lathe owners do trying to fix there shortcomings, I waisted alot of money not to mention my time on inferior mini lathes & should of just brought the largest lathe that would fit in the space I had at the time. Buy once cry once I should of learnt. I’m in the Gloucestershire area if you want to try out a boxford 10 series lathe to see the difference , my 330IS only cost me £700. The gearbox is like new , the TH10.20 was £400 but it will cost another £120 for the ELS. You can get great deals on used lathes both mine came from sellers who inherited them & and accepted the offer I sent. The downside is there weight 300Kg-400Kg depening on model but both mine were be shipped on a standard pallet with palletline ( they have tailifts) they lathe can be removed from its base if needed to reduce the weight. All im saying is they offer a whole lot more than a mini lathe can dream of as you get more for your money.

That said even a BUD has screw cutting & will outperform a mini lathe but after using a modern boxford I sold my BUD to get the TH10.20.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Discussions about Chinese machinery versus secondhand “British” have been done to death on this forum, and no doubt elsewhere too.

The biggest elephant in the room (there are several here) Mark has ignored in his enthusiastic resurrection of this thread is the completely unequal availability of the two competing classes of machine.

New Chinese machines effectively grow on trees. Someone in the market for one can compare the specs of all those currently on the market, narrow things down to the one he wants, and then click, pay and have it delivered, knowing it will come new and with a warranty, which will protect the buyer in the event of problems revealing themselves in the first few months of ownership.

The situation when buying a secondhand British lathe is utterly different. You can narrow down your choice all you please, but unless the machine you’re after actually comes up for sale, and is an example in good enough condition to be worth buying, and is priced affordably, and you are fortunate enough to be able to travel to see it, then collect it or arrange delivery of it, it will remain just a pipe dream indefinitely.

The most salient passage in Mark’s posts is “You can get great deals on used [presumably he means British] lathes”.

Indeed you can, but if and only if you are either very patient, or lucky, or have oodles of time to go looking at used examples, and, perhaps most crucially, you have the know-how to appraise the condition of a used lathe in all important respects during the relatively brief window you will have to look it over in whatever surroundings it happens to be currently housed in when you go to see it.

Mark has landed on a good used British lathe, but has made the mistake of working backwards from that outcome to a suggestion that buying a used British lathe is a no-brainer inasmuch as you will automatically get a better lathe than a new Chinese alternative and buying one is never going to be any less straightforward.

Sadly, Mark is wrong on both these counts, as innumerable real-life experiences by other buyers less fortunate than he has been bear witness.

 

[moonmanParticipant @moonman]

I have one of their 7″ mini lathes, brushless 600w motor.

I’ve found it good, I suspect they sell the same lathes as everyone else. It’s just a different colour paint job and a new sticker…

However the electrics (where these companies differ) I cannot fault amadeal.

I’ve also needed spares every now and then when I’ve pushed the machine too far, they keep everything in stock. Are always happy to talk on the phone to make sure you get the right bit and delivery is next day.

When I upgrade I will be getting another amadeal machine, no complaints from me at all.

 

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

I suppose to some extent it depends what the job is. Certainly a Mini-lathe would not be the ideal choice for a 1/3rd scale traction engine but they are capable of making smaller models.

My own Chinese import was bought for the job of model engineering specifically stationary steam, IC, hot air, etc. 58 engines and counting suggests to me it is upto that job.

Jason,

I had a look at your youtube channel, and im in awe with your models ! Where do you get the kits for those ?

 

Also, what mill do you have ? Is it the sieg sx3 ? (im considering to add a mill in the coming months)

 

Cheers,

Chris.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Chris, Thanks. Some are from casting kits current and also out of production. Some are scratch built based on old kit drawings, others just scratch built from old patents, engravings, a photo , etc. A few of them are very limited casting sets. Usually just two or three sets cast, I get one in return for doing the pattern work.

All Far Easten machines for me. Warco WM280, SIEG X3 is my main mill and quite similar to the SX3 but without the tiltinghead or brushless motor. I also do the odd bit on a SIEG SX2.7 and the more recent models will have had some parts done on a SIEG KX-3 CNC mill. All upto the job.

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

 

The most salient passage in Mark’s posts is “You can get great deals on used [presumably he means British] lathes”.

Indeed you can, but if and only if you are either very patient, or lucky, or have oodles of time to go looking at used examples, and, perhaps most crucially, you have the know-how to appraise the condition of a used lathe in all important respects during the relatively brief window you will have to look it over in whatever surroundings it happens to be currently housed in when you go to see it.

Mark has landed on a good used British lathe, but has made the mistake of working backwards from that outcome to a suggestion that buying a used British lathe is a no-brainer inasmuch as you will automatically get a better lathe than a new Chinese alternative and buying one is never going to be any less straightforward.

I agree with you that they are not as easy to come by as a import but they are out there worth looking for & yes you can get a Chinese lathe delivered to you door any time you wish, I also agree that they have a place as they can be good to learn on however using a Chinese lathe is akin to using a 4×4 lump of wood to hit in a 6 inch nail, it will take longer to do, its not pleasent & you will have to faff around doing it but it will get the job done, eventually but its easier to use a better tool for the job & my point is size for size there are much better options out there & people don’t realise what there missing untill they use a more rigid lathe. They can be good for small O/D steel parts & brass I guess but they will flex/break if you push them.

I don’t have this same issue with mini mills they are built far better, i first had a new seig x2 & it did every thing I needed untill I come by a used axminster ZX25M which was larger but had its draw backs as round column mills do & now I have a bridgeport clone a ajax AJT200 but I can still appreciate a mini mills. I just wish they would build mini/import lathes to the same standard perhaps if they were a bit more heavy duty in the same footprint people would not be left wanting more.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

This argument will rage for ever.

A little used, well cared for British machine will outperform a badly assembled, minimal cost Chinese lathe.

But a British lathe that has been poorly maintained, cleaned and worked long and hard in an industrial environment, will not match a new properly assembled and adjusted oriental machine.

Beware shiny new paint an old machine, examine and test very carefully.

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

I did once try a engineers mini lathe & it was a completely different beast from the run of the mill mini lathes, if only only they were all made to those specifications but it comes at a greater price. There is alot of happy mini lathe users & perhaps you can change my mind. I used plastic/brass & mild steel on the ClarkeCLM300 mini lathe but it was obvious it struggled with SS,  you could even feel the motor struggle once mild steel got to 30mm O/D, the Larger lathe I subsequently owned was a Armadale clone 750mm (they are all sold under different names) it had 750mm between centers but even though it was larger it too also had this same issue. What is the maximum O/D of SS you can/have machined on your mini lathe?  Is it possible to regularly turn/part 30-70mm SS as i was using alot of 70mm O/D 5130 & 5143 at that time. I’ve seen some videos of 15/20mm 304 SS but it was very very slow & from the sound on the videos it was causing vibration/chatter & a big strain on the lathe & I was genuinely worried about wear & tear & headstock bearing failure, something I didn’t want to be worried about on a brand new lathe,I’m not being facetious I would genuinely like to know how others got on & what they found the lathes limits was as I gave up in the end as it was taking far too long & the one i had was struggling even with very slow feeds & the parts that needed to be machined were piling up.I was genuinely worried I was going to break something on it so I sold that one too & i got a modern boxford as personally i didn’t want to go through that again. Perhaps I was too hastey perhaps I was hoping it could do more than it was actually capable of. I’d genuinely like to hear others experience with SS in various diameters

Thanks

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

This comes back to my question of “what is the job?”

If anyone is going to be regularly turning Stainless at those sort of diameters and wants it in a hurry then they should be looking at a bigger machine. Trying to push a mini lathe to do a job faster than it is really intended for is why you read the reports of smoked motors and boards. They are for light work and the occasional larger diameter item where with the right methods you can remove metal at a resonable rate and not overload the machine.

This is a 5mm depth of (10mm off diameter) from 30mm mild steel on the only slightly largerAmadeal AMAB210E (8 x 20) lathe

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

At the time I needed SS stand off spacers in various diameters up to 65mm O/D & the lathe was a 8×29 can’t remember if it was 700 or 1100W motor this was back in 2009

[Mark Hall]

On Mark Hall Said:

 

…Mark has landed on a good used British lathe, but has made the mistake of working backwards from that outcome to a suggestion that buying a used British lathe is a no-brainer inasmuch as you will automatically get a better lathe than a new Chinese alternative and buying one is never going to be any less straightforward.

… however using a Chinese lathe is akin to using a 4×4 lump of wood to hit in a 6 inch nail, it will take longer to do, its not pleasent & you will have to faff around doing it but it will get the job done, eventually ,,,

Generalisations are unhelpful.  Please name names so we can avoid these horrible lathes!

Possibly Mark was unlucky though?   I started with a mini-lathe and it did the job apart from being too small!  I swapped it for a Warco 280 which is still going strong after 10 years.  It is not, repeat not, “akin to using a 4×4 lump of wood to hit in a 6 inch nail“.  Perhaps I was lucky!

Compared with the pre-owned ex-industrial lathes I’ve played with, my WM280 is mid-range.   It performs better than worn industrial examples and not as delightfully as those in good nick.  Reason: condition matters far more than Brand or country of origin.  My WM280 is not so rough that I’ve felt the need to improve it, and it’s much more rigid than Mark believes –  heavier than a Super 7.  I confirm a new WM280 is far more pleasant to drive than a well-bashed Harrison L5A;  that said I don’t believe all L5A’s are rubbish because the one I tried was in poor condition.

A great deal of what’s said about lathes seems based on belief rather than a technical assessment that considers cost against a Use Case.  The Use Case may be vital: identify what you need and try to satisfy that within a budget.  Not smart to start in Formula 1 by buying a Vauxhall Corsa! Or to buy a F1 car to go shopping in Tescos!

My hobby Use Case is different to Mark’s:  Chinese hobby lathes meet my needs; I didn’t want to waste time hunting down a second-hand machine; the choice of size and features available off-the-shelf was helpful; and I wanted vendor support and consumer protection in the event something went wrong.  Above a certain price, I like to keep purchasing risks down by buying locally from sellers with a reputation to protect.

I suggest potential buyers should keep their needs in mind when looking at internet advice: reasons that make sense to others may not apply to them.

Amadeal and other UK suppliers provide vendor support rather than unique machines.  It’s what they do when things go wrong that matters, customer support, not how sexy the machine is.   Extreme example: I once came across an online vendor selling lathes at bargain prices, marvellous!  The devil was in the detail: in the event a dud was delivered, the purchaser had to return the tool at his cost to a depot in Germany : major hassle and money!  Nor was it clear the price included tax and import duty whilst a close look at what else was on sale revealed the seller was a box-shifter, offering no technical support whatsoever.  UK consumer protection did not apply.  Buying bargains from folk like this is much riskier than buying from Amadeal;  painful if anything goes wrong!

I don’t know how well, or not, Amadeal respond to problems because I’ve never bought from them.  No reason not too.  They aren’t criticised much and pop up here occasionally offering sensible advice.   I have an untested warm feeling about them.

ArcEuro get a consistently good press and they sorted a minor problem out for me with no fuss.  Their range of machines is  small though.

I bought all my big machines from Warco, and they replaced an expensive lost in transit item without blinking  My experience is positive.

A few years ago Chester scored several black marks on the web by not sorting problems out quickly, but that seems fixed – I’ve not noticed any complaints recently.   No personal experience.

Axminster offered an extended guarantee and ran courses, but I think they stopped.   The one item I bought from them just worked, so their customer service is untested by me.  Ditto RDG and several others.

MachineMart often have machines on display so you can see what you’re buying, except they’re pricey.  The salespersons in my local didn’t know anything about lathes, whereas I’ve had good pre and post sales advice from both ArcEuro and Warco.

Important I feel to manage expectations.  A £20k industrial machine is carefully inspected and comes with a lot of support.  Chance of a faulty machine being delivered are low, and if the worst happens the maker will be all over it. Big money involved!

Not how inexpensive hobby faults are managed!  To keep costs down lathes are lightly inspected at the factory and sold by a retailer, so there’s a somewhat higher risk machines might be faulty on delivery.   If so, it’s treated as a consumer purchase.  Contact the seller immediately, and, if the problem is serious they replace or refund.   Instead of expensively guaranteeing quality, defective hobby tools are just swapped.  A duff machine arriving is annoying, not a financial disaster.

Sorting out a faulty second-hand purchase is a different game entirely.

I get the impression the market is changing.   Ten years ago there were plenty of ex-industrial machines about, fewer now, and prices have crept up.  Myfords used to be in high-demand, over-priced in my opinion, but that seems to have changed too – more about, and people aren’t pushing prices up by chasing them aggressively.  Chinese lathes were assumed to be greatly inferior when I entered the hobby, less so now.  I think that’s because many buyers found them to be much better than the knockers believed. Far from perfect though. I expected to upgrade from Chinese to British, and it wasn’t necessary.  Buying new Chinese got what I wanted at a reasonable price and the lathe does all I need.  It’s the simplest low-risk way of entering the hobby, not necessarily the best.

Dave

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

Well written & you covered the bases, warcos have a good range & large following producing good hobbie machines  granted some brands are better than others. I’ve had friends/ colleague with Chesters & the entry level lathes aren’t good, Prices on second hand lathes ATM are good you can get a good industrial lathe for £1200 & cheaper. I went to see many in the last 3 months, perhaps people aren’t spending at present forcing the prices down that said not everyone is willing to travel to test them or even have the space for one buy if you have it’s a no brainer. Alot of people use mini lathes as a stepping stones in to the world of lathes & maybe I should not of put ALL mini lathes in the bad category as the engineering examples are good but I’m still not sold on using a mini lathe on stainless steel weather its 304, 5130 or 5143 maybe once in a while if you take your time it can work. How have you found machining & parting of SS on your lathe & up to what diameter.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would say anyone who is regularly parting off 70mm stainless on a mini-lathe has the wrong tool for the job.

Don’t have a need to turn much stainless over 12mm myself and even if I was working with it in  those larger diameters even with my 280 size lathe would band saw it off rather than part. I doubt many a Myford owner would relish the job either. But I’m happy to work 250mm cast iron and 200mm steel though.

 

[Mark HallParticipant @markhall37441]

I mentioned diameters up to 70mm as that was on Chinese 8×29 most parts were 20-40mm  (wish i new then what i do now) this was when i had to replace some SS spacers/standoff where I found the mini lathe really stugggled. Mild steel is very soft in comparison & easy to machine but going back to a mini lathe now would never be a option & once you have used a rigid lathe using a mini lathe really IS like l hitting in a 6″ nail with a lump of wood, If you are in need of a lathe you that’s going to cost you nearly a grand like a Armadale AMMBL180 you want one that can machine most things your going to machine & thd occasionally large job aswell as steels including SS without worrying your going to break it .Myfords have there own limitations & (only my opinion) they look & feel very old fashioned after all they are (but they get the job done) & they have a big following but mostly the older generation use them (50-70) & miniature steam engine enthusiasts.I’m 45 BTW so I’m practically that age, perhaps some nostalgia is attached to myfords buy I never saw the attraction it could of been because there was never as many lathes to choose from back in the 60s/70s as there is today but that is one man’s opinion & if we all had the same tastes life would get boring & you would never discover new things.

Better quality Mini lathes definitely have a place in the hobbie world for beginners when using softer metals or as a stepping stone to a larger lathe which most users end up doing, the forums are full of members who started on a mini lathe, but I would not recommend one of the lighter ones like the ClarkeCLM300 or even a £500 Armadale budget lathe, or a Chester 4 that matter , Armadales better quality lathes are close to £1000. Thats a eye watering amount for a machine of that size or anthing similar. But if you can only fit a lathe of that size in your workshop pay a little more for the quality one not a buget option unless its for only machineing plastic/brass/ally & mild steel. The best advice I ever saw was to buy one as big as the space you have & the more rigid the better which is why some of the heavier warco do so good.

Large parts are not the issue on these lathes its harder steels than EN1A  ,even my hardinge HC chucker is not suitable for large parts & it is rigid it weighs over 800Kg but that’s a different story & it isn’t even in the same league.

For the record I’ve owned many lathes over the last 17 years & still have 2, my student 1800 gap bed was sold when we moved as i didnt have room for it as had to build the workshop so I got the super precision Chucker for the smaller diameter parts & the X10 for anying over 32mm & even though ithe chucker is from the 1980s it still holds incredible tolerances. From owning different lathes from different brands & different sizes I’ve learnt there really are better options than a mini lathe when spending £ for £ but if you want one shipped to your door for convenience do your homework & find out there limitations as some retailers will not even have a clue what they are selling or worse tell you what you want to hear, you dont want to waist your time & hard earned money. after being told “oh yes of course you can machine stainless” when the truth is yes it can maybe once in a while but it will take you along time to machine it & even then you may not even be able to part it off & you will run the risk breaking your lathe while doing it.

Dont be afraid to buy used, keep a eye out for one go test it  under power through all the spindle speeds & listen to see if there gears a meshing. If gears are worn you can hear them at high speed, test all power feeds & threading & again  listen/feel.

Take a DTI with you to test bed/carriage wear along the ways & spindle nose then test for back lash it will give you some idea how hard its been used & the reason I recommend the x10s was not because I was lucky to score a good used one, luck had no part in it. Boxford sold these X10 series lathes in the tens of thousends across the country to education facilities most went to schools & becase of this, they were very lightly used the x10 I’ve had one that was from the 80s & the most recent made in 2005.

 

Any lathe up to 1200×1000 with a weight or 1000kg (some tailift trucks are only rated up to 750KG) can be shipped by pallet with pallet line/palletvways & they will arrive to collect & deliver it with a electric pallet truck, collect/ load it on there tail assisted lorry for a price of £70-£130 depending on location. I’ve purchased 3 lathes & a milling machine doing it this way. So I haven’t been lucky by any stretch I just kept a eye out

If your going to spend £1000 on a mini lathe think long & hard as there really are better much better options available on the used market not only ebay but there are thousends of local auctions going on every week. Buy once cry once

 

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