55 Degree dovetail cutter, Where from?

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55 Degree dovetail cutter, Where from?

This topic has 40 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 23 September 2014 at 18:01 by Ian P.

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22 September 2014 at 16:37 #164283
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
I need to cut some female dovetails in aluminium. The slot will be about 30 wide and 6mm deep so a cutter head diameter of 15 would be ideal. The 55 degree angle is to match some existing camera equipment which incorporates the locking mechanism so the angle has to pretty close.

I can find lots of 45 and 60 degree cutters but 55 degree ones are either very expensive of have to come from distant shores.

Can anyone recommend a UK supplier or have a cutter lying around that I could buy?

Ian P
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22 September 2014 at 16:37 #23506
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
22 September 2014 at 16:43 #164286
Chris Trice
Participant
@christrice43267
Kirjeng do odd angle dovetail cutters. I was looking at their catalogue yesterday.
22 September 2014 at 16:49 #164287
Michael Cox 1
Participant
@michaelcox1
Hi Ian,

You could easily make a dovetail cutter for this application. I made a 60 degree cutter using a TCMT insert as shown here:

http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/dovetail-cutter.html

If you cut the recess for the insert so that the bottom of the insert makes an angle 5 degrees to the horizontal than the cutting face will be at 55 degrees.

Alternatively you could cut the 55 degree dovetail using a 3 mm straight milling cutter with the work mounted at the appropriate angle. This will give a slight undercut to on the base but unless the material is very thin this will be of little consequence.

Mike
22 September 2014 at 16:52 #164288
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Why not make one from silver steel, very easy and cheap. Have made quite a few over the years mainly for gun sight dovetails . John
22 September 2014 at 17:23 #164292
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Chris

Kirjeng dont seem to have a catalogue or a website that I can find. Please could I trouble you to see if 55 degrees is a cutter angle they show in the catalogue you have.

Mike

If it was 60 degrees a standard triangular tip would make it easy (but then 60 degree cutters are plentiful) If I tilt one as you suggest the bottom face of the channel would not be flat. That also stops me using small diameter endmill at an angle.

Johnf

Whilst silver steel suitably hardened would be OK I dont have the skill and patience to make a multi edged cutter.

I dont have a vast quantity of dovetails to cut (10 females about 60mm long) so all in all its not a vast amount of metal to remove but I want to achieive a nice repeatable finish without having to cut very slowly. I have done similar profiles before using woodworking router bits, they are not ideal in aluminium but often very good value for the money.

Based on what Michael said I could use s ready made 45 degree dovetail cutter and tilt it 10 degrees, It would mean I had to tilt the head of the mill and that really is too onerous for me to do, ever! (Loose shims in two planes means precise tramming take hours)

Ian P
22 September 2014 at 18:08 #164296
Saxalby
Participant
@saxalby
Hi,

Why not make a cutter as Michael Cox suggested, but use a 55 deg DCMT carbide insert.

Barry
22 September 2014 at 18:11 #164298
clogs
Participant
@clogs
Hi Ian,

try http://www.freud.com or co.uk (or google it), I think they were in Hamel Hampstead…..they do various cutters for Ally and wood…don't remember them being mad expensive….

they do have a good on-line catalogue…..If u get stuck I do have a couple of other places to try but I'm not at home to get the details……but home soon, just ask if u need them…..

get lucky…

Frank in France
22 September 2014 at 18:36 #164302
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Frank

I did think of Freud, there are none in an old catalogue I have so I looked on the website. I actually doubt they do one at 55 degrees but I had to go through hoops just to find the angle of the ones they do make! The indexing and search on their site might be OK if you know the shank diameter of the cutter or what industry the cutter is used in, but you cannot choose by cutter shape, just weird.

If you need router cutters, I can recommend 'Wealdentool.com' I have found their cutters and prices good.

Barry's idea is one I had not thought of. I'm not sure if I could make a holder (for two tips preferably) to the required accuracy but its got me thinking of buying a pair of the super sharp, polished aluminium cutting inserts and having a go.

Ian P
22 September 2014 at 18:40 #164303
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
A small flycutter will do dovetails, I often use them to do the latched on hit & miss governors

I looked through my Wealdon catalogue when I fiorst saw this post but they don't do such steep angles

Edited By JasonB on 23/09/2014 07:24:59
22 September 2014 at 18:58 #164305
clogs
Participant
@clogs
Hi Ian, again…..

check out "Trend", they sell there own and other ally cutter's…..

sorry can't do more as I only have a tablet at the moment and I need some new eye's….hahaha'''

get luck, Frank in France….
22 September 2014 at 19:00 #164306
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Nothing in my Trend pro or hobby range catalogues
22 September 2014 at 19:06 #164307
ronan walsh
Participant
@ronanwalsh98054
Sounds like a job for a shaper if you know someone with one.
22 September 2014 at 19:23 #164310
clogs
Participant
@clogs
Hi Ian, just a thought…..

what about one of those cheap and cheerful Chinese tipped cutters……thinking, don't laugh…

what about putting it in a drill press then touch it with a 4" grinder to get the angle whilst it's spinning then just grind back the back edge…there'll only be a few to do……I'm sure it'll do as a throw away…

get lucky….Frank in France…….
22 September 2014 at 20:31 #164316
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Thanks for all the ideas. I have some DCMT (11) tips and I think a single edged cutter using one would work. Using two tips would make the overall diameter too large because the back halves of the trapezoidal shapes would clash. Using smaller than TCMT11 maybe OK but the holder would be more fiddly to make.

Another idea that I cannot use because I dont have a cutter grinder, is to modify a 60 or 45 cutter to 55 degrees but I may investigate getting a sharpening company to grind one.

I have two of the Lidl/Aldi Chinese 12 router cutters selection boxes, I think he first one cost me £5.99. They have proved very useful when I needed a special shaped TC cutter, rarely used for woodworking though.

Ian P
22 September 2014 at 21:43 #164320
Enough!
Participant
@enough
Or you could search for a Whitworth dovetail cutter
22 September 2014 at 22:58 #164324
Vic
Participant
@vic
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30mm-x-55-Degree-HSS-Dovetail-Cutter-End-Mill-/120937175863
23 September 2014 at 02:20 #164336
julian atkins
Participant
@julianatkins58923
hi ian,

i have a suitable cutter if you want to borrow same. what depth?

cheers,

julian
23 September 2014 at 06:52 #164337
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Vic on 22/09/2014 22:58:52:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30mm-x-55-Degree-HSS-Dovetail-Cutter-End-Mill-/120937175863

.

Vic,

Interesting … that cutter looks like it's 55° from the vertical; which would make the internal angle 35°.

For no particularly good reason, I had assumed that Ian's requirement was for a 55° internal angle.

Which makes me wonder … is there an agreed convention for the way dovetails are described, or is it something we need to be wary of ?

MichaelG.

.

P.S. Harvey Tool lists an enormous range of small Dovetail Cutters … and refers to the Included Angle.

P.P.S. … and here is Harvey Tool's very useful Angle Conversion Chart !!

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/09/2014 07:02:19

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/09/2014 07:07:07
23 September 2014 at 07:57 #164340
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Posted by Vic on 22/09/2014 22:58:52:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30mm-x-55-Degree-HSS-Dovetail-Cutter-End-Mill-/120937175863

Vic that was one of the cutters I saw but the distant shores put me off, price is OK though.

Looking at it again now the angle does look very steep, it might just be the photograph but its ruled out anyway because the diameter is too large as the finished slot is only 28 wide.

IanP
23 September 2014 at 08:13 #164341
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Posted by julian atkins on 23/09/2014 02:20:25:

hi ian,

i have a suitable cutter if you want to borrow same. what depth?

cheers,

julian

Julian

That is a very king offer. I will see if I can buy a cutter first just in case the parts I have been asked to make turn out to be a regular requirement.

The female dovetail I am cutting (to suit existing male) is 28mm wide and 6mm deep and needs to have fairly sharp internal corners as the male part only has about a 0.5mm flat.

Ian P
23 September 2014 at 09:09 #164344
Vic
Participant
@vic
Good find Michael. This pic makes it nice and clear.

Edited By Vic on 23/09/2014 09:09:44
23 September 2014 at 09:29 #164346
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
The range of (all types of) cutters from Harvey Tool is brilliant, but look justifiably expensive. I don't know of a UK supplier that offers a similar range.

Their site does give a good plain English explanation of cutter angles and how they are specified, the image Vic posted clearly shows the dovetails as included angles, but that is a less common way of expressing dovetails as seen and used by the ME fraternity. As it happens they don't show one for the 55 degrees I need!

Ian P
23 September 2014 at 09:36 #164347
Vic
Participant
@vic
It's an interesting subject for a photographer so I did a quick google. Seems there's no standard for photographic dovetail mounts. Arca Swiss use 45°, Bogen and Manfrotto use 60°. These are included angles as per the Harvey picture.

Edit: No, I'm not sure they are included angles! How frustrating someone didn't come up with a standard for expressing dovetail angles!

Edited By Vic on 23/09/2014 09:41:57
23 September 2014 at 09:52 #164350
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Vic

My definition of 'photographic equipment' was a bit vague. The actual thing I am interfacing to, is a DJI 'Ronin' stabilised camera mount. It is a beautifully made bit of kit and I think incredibly cheap after having seen and examined one.

I milled a series of little test gauges at different angles in order to check what dovetail angle they used as my original very careful measurements seemed to show different angles for the male and female part (but they proved to be the same)

Ian P
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