I am trying to select the best tools and techniques to complete the brass body of a 'Betty' 3 1/2" gauge, locomotive tender.

The sheet brass body sections have already been assembled in accordance with the instruction manual. Note that the manual and drawings show 1/4" x 1/4" brass angle attached to the inside of the body using 1/16" diameter snap head rivets. The rivets have their heads on the inside and countersinks on the outside plate. A large number of countersunk screws are used for the top plates and to hold the body to the sole plate. This means that the current tank work is already quite strong but will probably leak like a sieve.

The manual goes on to suggest the use of a soldering iron rather than a torch to seal up the tank. It states that a torch will probably buckle the nice flat brass platework but my guess is that LBSC probably had an old traditional flame heated soldering iron in mind.

So, this is quite tricky because the sections or angle and the rivets can not be tinned i.e., they are already fitted and I would prefer to have a go at solder rather than some kind of epoxy or petrol tank sealant.

Anybody out there done this successfully with an iron and are there any good tips?

Thanks

Phil H

Rich/ John,

Thanks very much for taking the time to answer and thanks for the tips.

I notice that low temperature lead solder still seems to be available on-line. I'll have a go at ordering some and I'll also take a look at Phoenix.

I like the heat gun tip to pre warm the metalwork. I would imagine that reduces the risk of distortion significantly and it might help the soldering iron? I will enlist a willing volunteer to use the heater whilst I use the iron. It will be a good training scheme for when I need two propane torches on the boiler.

One of my main concerns was getting a soldering iron with sufficient power to do the job but I also notice that there are some 100W + irons available on-line.

Pictures will follow.

Thanks,

Phil H

Simon,

Thanks for that – I was thinking about asking people about their experience with the laser cut parts for some other future project. I do have a central heating, butane style torch that I could use but I would like to try the iron first. If an iron has worked on a 5" gauge tender – it will surely work on a 3 1/2" engine.

Also, I can always fall back to the petrol tank sealant or I was thinking of the higher quality bathroom type silicon sealants if the soldering doesn't work.

The current plate work strips down to the sides, top and sole plate – so there is a good chance I can thoroughly clean the parts before trying to solder them.

Phil H

Richard,

I can separate the top from the sides and the soleplate from the sides but the brass angle is attached to the sides with 100+ 1/16" rivets. I might get them apart but it would make a hell of a mess. I'll take and post some pictures.

The boiler….. I like the idea of oxy propane but I will try using two decent propane torches first. I've seen a thread on one of the other sites where a chap has very recently made a 5" gauge Britannia boiler with 2 propane torches. He had to resort to oxy propane for a couple of leaks. I think I will also see what my local club can offer when it comes to the boiler.

Phil H

Folk,

The pictures as promised.

This is the tender as I received it. You can see that it is virtually complete (90% ish) but has a few minor issues such as the rust on the frames and the body of the tank work needs to be sealed – possibly with solder – hence this post.

Brian,

I assume the epoxy from the boat chandlers is a special brass product? I ask because I think I have seen other posts about the lack of adhesion between brass and various other products e.g., glues/ paint etc?

As you will note from the pictures, the existing structure should be very strong with all the rivets and countersunk screws so I don't have a closed mind to clever products that will probably save time and energy. I guess I just like the idea of the metal solder option.

Phil H

Richard, nice scraper. I might grind up an old screw driver or a piece of HSS to do the same job.

Latest – if anybody is interested?…..;

I decided to leave the access hole to the emergency pump alone. After cleaning with emery cloth etc, the existing soldered joint is quite nice so I levelled the top of the hole surround with a file and polished the plate. It now looks quite nice.

I did try some lead solder (180 degC stuff) on the front plate of the tender tank using a DIY, central heating type flame torch on a small flame. The good news is that my technique to clean the rivet heads and angle using emery and a Dremel went well because the solder formed nice fillets. The bad news is that even with very careful heating, the plate did distort significantly. Luckily, this particular plate is only about 61/2" wide X 3" and it was quite easy to straighten it back out using wood and a few taps from a mallet.

So, for my next trial, I will ditch the small torch, buy some lower temperature solder and a big soldering iron and try again. I was lucky with the front plate. If I distort the tender sides, I doubt if I will be able to retrieve them.

Phil H

Stuart,

i have considered a micro torch but going back to previous posts, Richard has recently built a 5" gauge tender using a hot air gun and a soldering iron – so I will have a got at that method first. I do like the look of the micro torch though.

Phil H

Brian,

I think you are right. I'll start with the solder with the epoxy in my back pocket for tricky leaks.

Richard/ Duncan,

Yes, I tried the flame on the front plate as a sort of trial. I knew the part was probably small enough and simple enough to straighten out again if it did go pear shaped and it did. It was almost as if the heated side relaxed and expanded whilst the cool side stayed exactly as it was. The result being a banana shaped curve. Heating both sides with the oven or a blower would obviously reduce the impact of the uneven heating and sounds like it works – definitely worth a go.

I am not quite sure how the manager will feel about the oven being used for this kind of work and it is no good sending her out shopping. I can guarantee that she will smell it when she walks back in. Her sense of smell is incredible.

Phil H