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  • #418253
    john brown 17
    Participant
      @johnbrown17

      Hi all l seem to be going round an round over what gear cutter size to use for making the gears for the model lanz tractor by jam de waal to me the drawings are not clear what gear set to use ie module 1 or ?,and l do not want to buy a set of cutters that will not do the job ,or do l do as a model maker said just use a single point fly cutter to make them ,so is there a member out there that has made them and could help out here please.

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      #26709
      john brown 17
      Participant
        @johnbrown17

        Type of cutter

        #418258
        not done it yet
        Participant
          @notdoneityet

          Email the originator? E-MAIL: dewaal@xtra.co.nz.

          Actually doesn’t look too important. Multiple gear reductions use larger teeth on slower moving shafts (need to transmit more torque), but that does not look like an issue with this?

          Diameter and tooth count are the usual requirements to calculate the MOD. Are these not supplied on the drawings?

          #418265
          john brown 17
          Participant
            @johnbrown17

            Thanks for that , its a bit clearer now ,l think most of the gears can be cut with module 1 cutter and the odd size gears think l will have to fly cut example gear being dia 78.5 x 57 that l work out to be 1.6 module ? or do l get a cheap 1.5 cutter for that.

            #418272
            steamdave
            Participant
              @steamdave

              You may want to have a look at another JDW Lanz tractor build, this one over on HMEM and maybe compare notes.
              https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/lanz-tractor.31327/#post-325989

              Dave
              The Emerald Isle

              #418274
              not done it yet
              Participant
                @notdoneityet

                Outside diameter divided by (tooth count + two). = MOD

                So, 78.5/(57+2) = 1.33

                Centre-to-centre of the gears must be correct, too – and every different tooth-count gear of any particular MOD will have a different diameter….

                #418277
                john brown 17
                Participant
                  @johnbrown17

                  Phwwwwwwwww gears well a member on the HMEM mailed me ,he used a mix of module 1 an module 1.25 cutters ,as he said 78.5 / 57+2 = 1.33 like not done it yet said ,but theres not a module of that ,so just went to the 1.25 and it worked out ok , so l think will get some cheaper import cutters to keep the cost down and go for it,and hope it works out

                  #418280
                  Graham Meek
                  Participant
                    @grahammeek88282

                    Looking at the PDF I have, the gears are 1 MOD. However I have noticed one gear has the wrong outside diameter.

                    Regards

                    Gray,

                    #418282
                    john brown 17
                    Participant
                      @johnbrown17

                      Gray the pdf is what l am working from,what gear size do you think is wrong,but if the gears are all indeed module1 then l will be very happy ,l am new to this so am glad of the help

                      john

                      #418435
                      john brown 17
                      Participant
                        @johnbrown17

                        Hi all many thanks for all your help you have been very kind,l will now place an order for a full set of module 1 gear cutters, will have to go for a cheaper set of imported ones but as long as they get this project done ,will be happy ,l am just waiting for gray to let me know what gear has the wrong diameter can then make the blanks.

                        #418443
                        Michael Gilligan
                        Participant
                          @michaelgilligan61133
                          Posted by john brown 17 on 12/07/2019 06:30:59:

                          l am just waiting for gray to let me know what gear has the wrong diameter can then make the blanks.

                          .

                          Logic would suggest that it must be the 57 tooth

                          If

                          D/(57+2) = 1

                          D should be 59 not 78.5

                          MichaelG.

                          #418446
                          JasonB
                          Moderator
                            @jasonb

                            The large 57T gear on the diff and the gerbox output are a different size to the other Mod1 gears, as said about 1.33MOD. Probably best to start with the PCD and see what you can get to fit.

                            If you think that is bad take a look at the ones for teh Robey cane crusher that are being published at the moment, all odd gear sizescrying

                            #418450
                            Michael Gilligan
                            Participant
                              @michaelgilligan61133

                              Thanks, Jason … I haven't looked at the drawings

                              Was just applying simple deductive logic to Gray's statement

                              MichaelG.

                              .

                              Edit: It looks like a diameter of around 74.5mm should be right 

                              Module 1.25 or 20 DP according to taste

                              Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/07/2019 08:15:42

                              #418453
                              JasonB
                              Moderator
                                @jasonb

                                So PCD of the two gears is 101.90mm or 4.012"

                                If you went with 20DP and use 22:58T that would give you a PCD of 4.000". Add a bit of fiddling with depth of cut and you could get away with that if you don't fancy making a cutter to the tooth profile shown in the detail

                                Just applying simple practical experiencewink 2

                                EDIT, as the Gearbox is mounted on slotted holes you don't have to be too worried about exact PCD so if you want to stick with cheap MOD cutters than 1.25MOD and a ratio of say 22:59 would give 101.25 so the 0.65mm difference is easily taken up by sliding the gearbox

                                 

                                PS do check my hurried maths as I'm meant to be off out working.

                                Edited By JasonB on 12/07/2019 08:17:00

                                #418455
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  Posted by JasonB on 12/07/2019 08:07:43:

                                  So PCD of the two gears is 101.90mm or 4.012"

                                  [ … ]

                                  Just applying simple practical experiencewink 2

                                  .

                                  Having not seen the drawing, I wouldn't know the tooth count of the matching gear …

                                  Nice that we reached a similar conclusion though smiley

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #418460
                                  john brown 17
                                  Participant
                                    @johnbrown17

                                    Ok trying to take all this in, will make bull gear blank 74.5 diameter and get a cheap 1.25 mod cutter that cuts 55 to 134 just for that gear and module 1 gear set for the rest ,and will play around with the bull gear till it fits alright, off to hide in a dark room now but thanks for the help.

                                    #418463
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                      Posted by john brown 17 on 12/07/2019 09:16:35:

                                      … off to hide in a dark room now …

                                      .

                                      Whilst you are there, John … have a play with this calculator: **LINK**

                                      https://www.technobotsonline.com/gear-size-calculator.html

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #418485
                                      Graham Meek
                                      Participant
                                        @grahammeek88282

                                        Hi John,

                                        The gear I looked at quickly yesterday morning which for 1 Mod is wrong is Pinion 4-24. Today I see the note "same profile as 3-18", (there is a lot of info on these drawings). These two gears are made using the profile shown in the small drawing on Gear 3-18. From the details given I do not think these gears are of an Involute form. I think they are intended to be a Cycloidal form, the same as the Clock Makers use. Making such cutters to use in a flycutter is simple. Using 1.25 MOD will not give the tooth thickness specified, ie 2.5 mm. From what I have worked out the tooth thickness will be 0.25 mm smaller, but still larger than gap cut by the 1.25 MOD cutter, which is 1.9635 mm.

                                        The gears can be cut using 16 DP as the base but with 16 teeth on the pinion and 48 teeth on the gear. O/D of the pinion will be 28.57 and the gear 79.37 mm, not that far away from what is drawn.

                                        Regards

                                        Gray,

                                        #418486
                                        JasonB
                                        Moderator
                                          @jasonb

                                          John, if you go down the 1.25MOD route you will need a second cutter for the 19T output gear from the gearbox part 4-24

                                          If you have already ordered the MOD1 set then you may as well make use of that and cut something like 25:77T which would give a similar ration to the 19:57.

                                          Drawings for Michael

                                          #418495
                                          Michael Gilligan
                                          Participant
                                            @michaelgilligan61133
                                            Posted by JasonB on 12/07/2019 12:30:15:

                                            Drawings for Michael

                                            .

                                            Thanks, Jason

                                            Now at least I know that the 57 tooth gear is driven by a 19 tooth

                                            Busy drawings aren't they surprise

                                            MichaelG.

                                            #418499
                                            john brown 17
                                            Participant
                                              @johnbrown17

                                              Turns light off again

                                              Hi all well owing to the chimney sweep being here this morning ,l have not placed the order for the cutters,so looking at the new info l have now ,l will say what l intend but but not place an order till you good people say l am right,to save money l will order a set of module 1 for most of the gears ,and fly cut the two gears that need say 16dp ,as they are somewhat more money, Please am l on the right road now ?

                                              here is hoping john

                                              #418502
                                              JasonB
                                              Moderator
                                                @jasonb

                                                You have two roads that you can follow.

                                                1. One is the make a cutter as per the details on the drawing and cut the 57T & 19T or to another shape and adjust tooth count to suit. Cut the rest with your MOD1 set.

                                                2. If you are ordering a set of cutters then they will have what is needed to do a 25T:77T MOD1 for the two gears in question so you could do them all MOD1

                                                So really upto you if you want to have a go at making a cutter or not. maybe check what tooth numbers you can produce with your indexing/dividing setup and base your decision taking tat into account as it is not worth making a cutter for 19T if you can't get 19 divisions. If the single point cutter doe snot work out you can always fall back to cutting them all MOD1, for the use they are likely to get I can't see the smaller teeth being much of an issue.

                                                Michael, glad I'm not the only one who thinks Julius likes to use as few sheets a possibleangry

                                                #418505
                                                john brown 17
                                                Participant
                                                  @johnbrown17

                                                  Lights on l think.

                                                  Right there is 3 gears that have 30 teeth ,so thats one cutter in module 1 if l have that worked out right

                                                  The rest of the gears use fly cutter to made to the dia on the drawing, so if l am right all l need to get is one cutter,lets hope l am there now

                                                  #418506
                                                  Graham Meek
                                                  Participant
                                                    @grahammeek88282

                                                    Hi John,

                                                    I have sent you a PM

                                                    Regards

                                                    Gray,

                                                    #418509
                                                    john brown 17
                                                    Participant
                                                      @johnbrown17

                                                      Thanks graham have sent back ,with regards to my last post forget it,l had not seen jasons post then ,sooooooo its all going to be module 1 set up , l take it the diameters stay the same, l have said to graham l feel bad l have to keep asking you kind people for help ,but have still loads to learn and to be honest the drawings could have been bigger with more space around them. So thanks

                                                      regards john

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