The real question is, would you do this if the feed in tariff was not subsidised by all of us through our power bills? Personally I think these technologies should stand or fall on their own.

As Clive says, it takes a long time to recoup the capital outlay, which leads to the following questions:

How long does the guarantee on the panels last? If they cease working after it runs out, you would have to buy replacements.

To what extent, and for how long, are the utility companies obliged to hold the prices at which they buy any surplus electricity from you? The trouble with any long-term government-backed scheme is that the goalposts might be moved before things have run their course.

If you decide to move house, would the presence of the panels help or hinder a sale, and would they add anything to the value of your home?

I understand that some schemes involve you (in effect) in renting your roof to a solar energy company, so you have little (if any) initial outlay. Personally. I wouldn't do that, in case it affected a future sale. In any case, if you have a mortgage,leasing out your roof would need the lender's consent.

Andy

Edited By Andyf on 28/06/2012 14:22:07

Hi NGH,

not really a subject for discussion on this site surely! However I have had PV panels for over a year, including periods of 'Saharan Sand' falling on my roof and they appear to be as clean as new. i was advised to give them a once over with a hose to simulate heavy rain if the efficiency deteriiorated but there is no sign of that yet.

The feed in tariff is payable for 25 years and is secured with a written contract and mediated centrally by OFGEN. The FIT is index linked to the RPI.

In terms of panel warranty I quote:

"The following warranties will apply

Solar PV Panel performance 25 years (90% at year 10 and 85% at year 25)………….."

After that I'm on my own.

I have saved about half of my electricity bill (we have no gas in our village) but it is difficult to calculate as we have also recently had an Air Source Heat pump installed to drive our central heating system and this uses electricity rather than the oil we used previously.  I will need another year or so to do a full calculation and of course oil is bound to rise in price substantially in future so I can't account for that.

I calculate on my first years results that the PV installation will pay for itself in around 7 years and the Heat Pump in around 9 years.

If I decide to move I can have the system taken down and re installed at a new property but would lose the FIT, however the FIT is transferable so the new owner would benefit from the tariff, so it would be an incentive for sale and actually increae the price you can negotiate for the property as the saving in electricity costs and the FIT payments can be substantial over a period. I wouldn't touch a 'Free' system with a very long bargepole.

Just a point, most electricity is obviously generated during the day and it is better if you can arrange for power hungry activities to carry on during the day. for example I have a cold fill washing machine and use this in the daytime so that it does not use my hot water (from Heat Pump) but it's own heater using my own generated electricity. It means that I use less than 40% of my total electricity during the day so I do not have the rip off of 'Economy 7'.  BTW most people do not actually benefit from that tariff.

I am thinking of installing a deep cycle leisure battery and and charger combined with an inverter of about 1kW, 250 V output to run my house lights at night, but I have to calculate the possible payback.

Just My 2 cents (with experience)

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 28/06/2012 15:52:35

Obviously this is not the forum for this subject so try this one **LINK** which despite being set up by a business is less commercial than this forum ( which barely is at all) and is generally agreed to be the best renewable venue on the net. Renewable energy always looks attractive and 'free' but never is half as good as it looks. There is just one thing everyone should do though and that is insulate their workshop and not with a miserable 40mm but at least 4 inches of Kingspan or Celotex which is equivalent to 8 inches of fibre.

For electricity (called PV) look for the cost per kwp (the p is just 'produced'. A few years ago it was >£3k but now should be <£1.5k however mostly it isn't because the industry is dominated by ex double glazing salesmen. DIY is not elligable for subsidy so they have you over a barrel. Battery storage is not ecenomical at all unless the batteries are free.

Solar hot water (using 30 off 47mm 'tubes' is viable for a typical family of 4 if and ONLY if you are already having to replace the cylinder AND do it DIY. Any variation from the above may look like free energy but it really isn't . I have checked the sums repeatedly but it is all very close to the edge of being ecenomical.

edit – sorry about the smilies, they insert themsielves instead of closing brackets.

Edited By Bazyle on 28/06/2012 17:35:10

Hi Bazyle,

We have discussed this before, just add a space before the final bracket (like 'this' ).  As far as isulation is concerned my detached garage/workshop has cavity walls (with insulation) and I have a boarded ceiling with 8" of Rockwool between the joists, very comfy even in winter.

Regards

T

Edited By Terryd on 28/06/2012 19:08:23

The last time I was in Spain I saw a Solar water heating panel, ground based and made in Israel.

It was a about 2mtrs. tall and about 1.5 wide.

it was too hot to touch and suppied the hot water for a small house quite easily. How it would cope with continuous use I am not sure.

A point to note is that if the cold water input is raised about 10C then your fuel consumption is about halved taking it up to 50C.

I have considered a roof top water solar panel/s with a storage tank to contain the heated water which would then be taken to the normal heating system for further heating and use. (Nothing to do with central heating, just domestic) This is all feasable now with some sophisticated controls and small pumps. One thing is using an anti freeze as a fluid as in this country we do get freezing but not insurmountable.

If I lived in such a country as Spain I would immediately create a solar water heating system.

Clive

I've had a 4KW PV installation since last Oct, it caused me to re think the heating of my workshop (and house/water). On a sunny winter's day I am normally generating over 2KW and that is being used by my fan heater in the workshop. The best bit is that I am still being paid 47p per unit I generate.

Cleaning? My panels are silicon coated so they are self cleaning, but even so the crud only comes off when it rains, I think I have only given them one hose down this year in March. A couple of other houses locally also have panels but they cannot get up to wash theirs, there was a slight difference < 10% between what they generated and what I generate back in March, then the rain came and has continued ever since.

It was a good purchase, changed my perspective on using power. It is now a case of use it whilst it is free. The workshop was warmer this winter than it has ever been.

Jo

Edited By Jo Thoms on 29/06/2012 08:33:49

I was watching the news on TV while having my tea tonight, and there was a section on , a couple here in NZ (can't remember where), who have roofed the entire north facing side of their new house with PV panels in the form of tiles. They are going to, but have not yet fitted solar hot water panels. The cost is about 10,000 UK pounds for the PV system, a bit less for the water.

Quite a number of homes here in the south have solar hot water, even in areas with high frost and snow, without problems. I think the water is heated indirectly via an anti-freeze filled heat transfer unit. Ian S C

Whilst I am very happy with my PV system. My advice (even before the FIT value went through the floor) to anyone over 55 is that I would not if I were you.

The panels are very reliable (mine are Sanyo and they have had lass than 50 returns/failures in the 3,000,000 plus they have made over 15 years), the bit that is more likely to have problems is the inverter, which I have a 20 year warranty on . But it is that niggle that later in life it's another thing to go wrong and some trade's men might try to rip you off. Then there is the house sales problem only 50% of your potential buyers may see them as an asset the others will see them as a hideous growth…

To return your money in 10 years with the current FIT you would need a 4KW set up costing about £6K. If you want to be green, it will make you feel good but if you are trying to make a profit I'd leave the money in the bank.

Jo

Edited By Jo Thoms on 29/06/2012 11:01:29