8 inch 4 jaw Chuck on WM290 lathe?

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8 inch 4 jaw Chuck on WM290 lathe?

Home Forums Workshop Tools and Tooling 8 inch 4 jaw Chuck on WM290 lathe?

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  • #523536
    Adan Santander
    Participant
      @adansantander89729

      I am looking at purchasing a 4 Jaws independent chuck for my lathe and I am tempted to get an 8 inches chuck.

      Has anybody used a 8 inches chuck with a lathe similar to mine, an Amadeal 290V-F (Weiss WM290V-F)?

      I would be very interested to hear experiences regarding the subject.

      Many thanks in advance!

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      #20134
      Adan Santander
      Participant
        @adansantander89729
        #523552
        Rik Shaw
        Participant
          @rikshaw

          Adan – Not sure about the 8" chuck on your lathe. The 4 jaws supplied with these lathes are the 160mm as you know. The suppliers obviously reckon that 160mm is the most suited – a bit easier on the headstock bearings perhaps?

          I have a 200mm as supplied to go on my WARCO BH600G but the lathe is that much more heavy duty . By the way – the 200mm chuck is a bit of a beast. I have to use a winch to lift mine as I cannot even lift it of the floor where it lives.

          So my advice would be to stick with the 160mm although it would be interesting to hear what others think.

          Rik

          #523553
          Tony Pratt 1
          Participant
            @tonypratt1

            Adan, I've got a Warco 290V & the 160 mm chuck seems about right. Why do you want to fit a 200 mm ?

            Tony

            #523555
            Adan Santander
            Participant
              @adansantander89729

              Rik, thank you very much for your post.

              Good point on the weight, I did not think it would be that much. Do you know approximately how heavy yours is?

              I am not an expert by far but I would have not thought there is that much difference in the bearings of the WM290 with respect to the BH600G. Definitely the gearing in the BH600G makes for the 'heavy duty'. I was looking at the Chester Craftman before deciding for the 290, which I believe to be the same machine than yours. Unfortunately very heavy for where I live… .

              The Craftman also comes with 160mm chucks.

              Edited By Adan Santander on 29/01/2021 17:26:15

              #523558
              Adan Santander
              Participant
                @adansantander89729

                Tony, I don't have a 4 ind. jaws chuck at the moment and have been longing for one for a while. Basically, I have to bite the bullet and buy and have found a good opportunity to get an 8 inch for a close price to a 160 mm one and I thought it could actually be beneficial.

                I was brought to believe that 4 jaws independent were normally sized bigger than the 3 jaws, since they weight less in comparison.

                #523559
                Thor 🇳🇴
                Participant
                  @thor

                  I have got a 290 lathe, and the 4-jaw I use is a 6" lightweight – 4.5kg without backplate. It handles the work I do well. A standard 200mm might be around 15kg, so considerably heavier, Too heavy for my back at least.

                  Thor

                  #523561
                  Adan Santander
                  Participant
                    @adansantander89729

                    Thor, thank you very much for your post.

                    That is a big difference in weight indeed. I wouldn't like that on my back either… It likely makes mounting it on the spindle a miserable experience.

                    The one I am looking at is a Pratt Burnerd Light type.

                    #523567
                    SillyOldDuffer
                    Moderator
                      @sillyoldduffer

                      As a rough rule of thumb chuck weight nearly doubles for each extra 20mm diameter. In cast-iron.

                      80mm – 1.5kg
                      100mm – 2.5kg
                      120mm – 4kg
                      160mm – 7kg
                      200mm – 15kg

                      Another factor is max rpm falls off with increasing chuck diameter. One brand quotes 4000rpm max for their 80mm chuck and drop 500 rpm for each 20mm increment, so their 200mm is "only" rated to 2500. The big chuck is expected to be turning large diameter work where the surface speed will be plenty high enough, but the surface speed might be low for small diameter work. Probably not a problem.

                      I'd still be a tad nervous of putting a big chuck on a small machine. As well as the extra weight on the bearings, the additional overhang increases leverage. And the extra stress is before any work is mounted and cutting pressure applied.

                      How heavy is the work? An oversized chuck suggests turning larger than average diameter jobs and maybe more weight than the machine is designed to take. I think the effect of persistent overloading would be to reduce the life of the bearings rather than cause instant damage. But Adan might be turning light large diameter rings, and if heavy jobs can be done successfully for 5 years, so what. Fit new bearings!

                      The bigger chuck also stores a lot more energy, which might damage a VFD or resistive load during braking. Maybe.

                      Dave

                      #523573
                      Adan Santander
                      Participant
                        @adansantander89729

                        Dave, thank you very much for your post.

                        It looks like the consensus is to stick to 160 mm and I can also see that the weight is a bit scary (mostly to handle it)

                        It doesn't look like it will overhang much further than my 160 mm San Ou 3 jaws chuck (unhappy with it by the way). According tho the measures it is only 8 mm thicker.

                        With regard to the work size, I just think I am being 'cheap' and thought one can do all; I know…

                        I have worked on 160 mm diameter or box shaped parts a bit bigger occasionally but just aluminium or plastics. I have had to use the face plate for those occasions and always thought how handy a 4 Jaws ind would be.

                        #523651
                        larry phelan 1
                        Participant
                          @larryphelan1

                          I have an 8" 4 jaw chuck which came with my Craftsman lathe, and yes it is heavy to lift.

                          That,s why I made my lifting hoist, as shown in my Album, which works a treat. That chuck falling on your foot would not be a good experience.frown

                          #523659
                          Nigel McBurney 1
                          Participant
                            @nigelmcburney1

                            I dont see any problem mounting a larger chuck on a lathe,as long as the speed is kept reasonable and care is taken,work mounted in 4 jaw chuck can be odd shaped as this what a 4 jaw is often used for,castings etc so consider out of balace forces.Again with mounting odd shapes if say one jaw is protruding out to its limit,be careful, rotate by hand to ensure that it does not hit the lathe bed if it is a plain bed lathe ,gap bed lathes are not so liable to have a problem with clearance. depending on the bed a larger chuck may not have much more actual capacity . I have just bought a new 10 inch fourjaw for my 6 1/2 inch colchester,as the old four jaw was worn out .in addition to the four jaws there are also 4 radial tee slots between the jaws,very useful for securing odd shaped work and it enables balance weights to be bolted to the face of the chuck.The old chuck is retained for holding rough work or where there is only point location on castings or fabricated parts which is the main cause of chuck jaw strain and wear when there is a need for a tight grip, The new chuck will be used mainly for bar work as there is greater capacity than the 8 inch 3 jaw.

                            #523690
                            Paul Kemp
                            Participant
                              @paulkemp46892

                              I don't see a particular problem either. The original faceplate supplied with my Harrison L6 is almost 2' in diameter and the slots go pretty much all the way to the edge so by implication there is an expectation items will be clamped to it to enable machining at a large radius so load on the headstock bearings could be quite large. 15kg of weight on the bearings is hardly massive. The only rider is keep the speed down to the limitations of the chuck and as Nigel says watch the out of balance forces from irregular shaped work. Not sure who might be trying to machine say a slug of 6" diameter steel bar at 1000's of rpm though!

                              Paul.

                              #523705
                              Adan Santander
                              Participant
                                @adansantander89729

                                Nigel, Paul, thank you very much for your posts.

                                I contacted the seller asking about the weight and he states 8 Kg. The 3 jaw I have together with the back plate is 7.5 Kg.

                                I though I would give it a go, since the face plate I have is significantly larger than 8 inch and it seems all right in the lathe and the difference in weight with my current chuck isn't that much for this particular chuck. Unfortunately, someone wanted it more than I did and I missed this opportunity…

                                I'll keep looking for either a 160 mm or light duty 200 mm.

                                Thank you all.

                                #523780
                                Pete.
                                Participant
                                  @pete-2

                                  I bought an 8" slim body PB chuck about a month ago, they have the cam lock pins built into the body so it sits closer to the headstock, I just weighed it with some spring type baggage scales, so not very accurate, it showed about 9kg, they seem to be quite sought after, how much was the one you missed?

                                  #523790
                                  old mart
                                  Participant
                                    @oldmart

                                    As there are times when the jaws will overhang the od of the chuck, I should make sure the radius can be 5" without contacting the bed. If the chuck body only just clears the bed, then its holding capacity will only be very slightly better than a 160mm one.

                                    #523909
                                    Adan Santander
                                    Participant
                                      @adansantander89729

                                      Hi Pete, it went for £120.

                                      I found a standard PB 200 mm one for £80 in very good condition. With that price, I have bought it to see how it feels managing it and the fit. If I find it too heavy or protruding too much I will be able to sell it again with little or no loss. I might even make a back plate with 6082 AL to keep the weihgt as low as possible.

                                      @ Old Mart, yes, the lathe centre high is 150 mm. Have measured it and 5 inch is clear of the bed.

                                      #523955
                                      Pete.
                                      Participant
                                        @pete-2

                                        120 is a fair price, shame you missed it, I payed 100 for mine, I had a look yesterday, there's a couple from dealers for 300 to 400, which is a bit too much, how much does the standard body PB 8" weigh?

                                        #523982
                                        Adan Santander
                                        Participant
                                          @adansantander89729

                                          The PB catalogue's specs for standard 8''-200 mm PB 4 jaws is 14 Kg. Definitely heavy for me and overbuilt for this lathe. I don't think I will ever need the clamping power of this chuck, a light type would have done just well. However, for the price I thought I would give it an opportunity…

                                          Indeed, those prices for an used one are out of question, not willing to pay that kind of money for a 4 jaws chuck. In any case, that's the price for a brand new PB 160 mm.

                                          Edited By Adan Santander on 31/01/2021 17:50:03

                                          #523990
                                          old mart
                                          Participant
                                            @oldmart

                                            I would keep the backplate material to cast iron rather than aluminium. There is nothing to stop you mounting and removing the chuck in two stages, separating the chuck from the backplate first. Make a wood base to fit under the chuck which sits on the bed with as close a fit as you can get. It will make fitting and removing the chuck easier and safer. Then a tube projecting about 4" either side of the chuck will provide a decent grip when lifting it.

                                            #524168
                                            Adan Santander
                                            Participant
                                              @adansantander89729

                                              @Old Mart, I agree that Cast Iron is the preferred material. My understanding is that the choice is due to the stability of the material and the dumping capability?

                                              I happen to have a piece of 6082 AL at hand and I thought that, for the light duty work that I do, it should be strong enough and the reduction of weight would be a benefit. I am struggling to find a blank in Cats Iron.

                                              Reading at the Mechanical properties of 6082 T6, tensile strength and elongation are actually not too far from those of average cast iron. The weakness though is the fatigue strength and the hardness, which would affect durability. The plate will be bolted through. Definitely, if it was for a commercial work shop, it will not have a place… but neither would my lathe…

                                              I have seen back plate for racing cars wheels hubs made in 6082 T6.

                                              #524173
                                              Dave Halford
                                              Participant
                                                @davehalford22513

                                                I f you have a parting off moment alloy bends, leave a thicker flange than cast iron.

                                                #524175
                                                old mart
                                                Participant
                                                  @oldmart

                                                  I agree, you would need thicker aluminium than cast iron.

                                                  When I had a Fiat Panda multijet, I had two sets of wheels, alloys and steel. The alloys were 5J X 14 and the steels were 5 1/2 J X 14 and with the same size tyres on them, the steels were 1 Kg lighter each.

                                                  #524180
                                                  Howard Lewis
                                                  Participant
                                                    @howardlewis46836

                                                    My big lathe is Warco BH600 / Chester Craftsman clone, which came with a 8 inch 4 jaw. It is NOT a lightweight. It lives on a modified TV set swivelling bracket, bolted to an upright behind the back of the Headstock. It is quite enough to lift it off the bracket at the back of the Headstock and transfer the short distance onto the chuck board to screw onto the Mandrel.

                                                    The BH600 will swing 12" over the bed, so is a big machine (300 Kg ) for most hobby use

                                                    I could well believe that the 4 jaw weighs upwards of 20 Kg.

                                                    So if the chuck specified for your lathe is smaller, I would not fit a 8" for the sake of the Headstock bearings.

                                                    Howard

                                                    #524203
                                                    Nick Wheeler
                                                    Participant
                                                      @nickwheeler
                                                      Posted by old mart on 01/02/2021 18:03:39:

                                                      I agree, you would need thicker aluminium than cast iron.

                                                      When I had a Fiat Panda multijet, I had two sets of wheels, alloys and steel. The alloys were 5J X 14 and the steels were 5 1/2 J X 14 and with the same size tyres on them, the steels were 1 Kg lighter each.

                                                      Now imagine the difference if you compared the 17/18/19" diameter and 6/7" wide wheels common on modern cars. They're bloody heavy as alloys, and a lot more manageable as steels. If you can find any.

                                                      And lets not forget how easy it is to damage a large alloy wheel beyond repair

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