Warco 250 cross slide dial slipping

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Warco 250 cross slide dial slipping

This topic has 38 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 6 November 2015 at 08:14 by Roger Head.

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2 November 2015 at 23:51 #210394
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Hello all

Having diverted from problems of my band saw blade snapping I decided to try turning a length of bar stock on my new Warco 250 for the first time– I’ve run into a couple of problems and I’ll launch two threads to talk about the two independently.

My first problem is the dial on the cross slide – it seems as though if I turn it slowly it slips and doesn’t move the lead screw. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on, and why winding the cross slide didn’t seem to be making any difference. Warco advertise that it uses friction dials, and I’m guessing there is some way of adjusting it ?

Thanks in advance

David

Edited By David Cambridge on 02/11/2015 23:51:10
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2 November 2015 at 23:51 #12571
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Warco 250 cross slide dial slipping
3 November 2015 at 07:14 #210398
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
It's meant to slip. You turn the handwheel to move the slides and the friction will mean the callibrated dial turns with the handwheel. If you want to set the dial to Zero at any point then it can be turned while the feedscrew/handwheel remains stationary.
3 November 2015 at 07:39 #210400
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
Hi David

Warco is correct in that it uses friction dials as all this type of lathes do; If you look in your manual ( supplied ? ) on page … Lathe top slide; Cross slide… Carriage assembly… part # 54 ( my manual 250V-F )… this is the friction spring that holds the dial in place; it should be a piece of 'spring' steel, but having experience of Chinese QC it may well be a piece of 'mild steel' strip in which case you could bend it further to give you more friction on your hand wheel, or, you could replace it with a piece of band strapping as this tends to have more 'spring' in it, or possibly a stainless spring steel from an old window wiper frame… as you are aware you should be having the dial move with the crosslide hand wheel when you put a cut 'on' & the be able to have enough 'friction' to zero / reset the dial to whatever setting you wish if you get my drift.

Regards

George.

p.s. Might I suggest that you keep this thread under the 'Warco 250 & WM16 family' thread rather than start a new thread, possibly a moderator could move it ( Neil ? )
3 November 2015 at 09:31 #210410
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by mechman48 on 03/11/2015 07:

… it should be a piece of 'spring' steel, but having experience of Chinese QC it may well be a piece of 'mild steel' strip in which case you could bend it further to give you more friction on your hand wheel, or, …

.

[quote]

Every Warco lathe is fully run and tested by a qualified member of our team before leaving our premises, and is supplied with an individual accuracy test report.

[/quote]

Re. the quoted statement: does this happen in England or in China?

I don't really 'care' … it's just curiosity.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2015 09:33:15
3 November 2015 at 10:04 #210419
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by David Cambridge on 02/11/2015 23:51:01:

My first problem is the dial on the cross slide – it seems as though if I turn it slowly it slips and doesn’t move the lead screw. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on, and why winding the cross slide didn’t seem to be making any difference. Warco advertise that it uses friction dials, and I’m guessing there is some way of adjusting it ?

.

David,

Re-reading your question, and the answers to-date …. Could you please clarify? … are you just saying that the graduated dial is slipping, or is it worse than that?

MichaelG.
3 November 2015 at 10:08 #210420
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2015 09:31:53:

Posted by mechman48 on 03/11/2015 07:

… it should be a piece of 'spring' steel, but having experience of Chinese QC it may well be a piece of 'mild steel' strip in which case you could bend it further to give you more friction on your hand wheel, or, …

.

[quote]

Every Warco lathe is fully run and tested by a qualified member of our team before leaving our premises, and is supplied with an individual accuracy test report.

[/quote]

Re. the quoted statement: does this happen in England or in China?

I don't really 'care' … it's just curiosity.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2015 09:33:15

I sometimes wonder if the quote should really be and more thoroughly checked if it's going to some one with a bit of fame such as say Jason or some one who will review it. On the other hand reviews don't usually give adequate information that could avoid the possibility of buying something that always tends to be a bit of a lemon or the true state of a machine that is being reviewed.

John

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3 November 2015 at 10:52 #210427
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Hello

Just to clarify. I am very slowly turning the cross slide handle to bring in more cut – fine tuning to take those last few finishing cuts. What’s happening is that the tool does not move, instead something seems to slip. If I speed up rotation of the handle then everything is fine, but of course then the tool movement is quite course. I don’t believe I have overtightened the cross side Gibbs –any loser and the cross side would be too free.

Yesterday I found I could very slowly move the cross slide handle round and round indefinitely, with the tool never moving. I’m not talking about just moving the scale, I’m talking about turning the handle to move the tool but the tool not moving.

David
3 November 2015 at 11:21 #210429
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by David Cambridge on 03/11/2015 10:52:26:

Hello

Just to clarify. I am very slowly turning the cross slide handle to bring in more cut – fine tuning to take those last few finishing cuts. What’s happening is that the tool does not move, instead something seems to slip. If I speed up rotation of the handle then everything is fine, but of course then the tool movement is quite course. I don’t believe I have overtightened the cross side Gibbs –any loser and the cross side would be too free.

Yesterday I found I could very slowly move the cross slide handle round and round indefinitely, with the tool never moving. I’m not talking about just moving the scale, I’m talking about turning the handle to move the tool but the tool not moving.

David

.

Thanks for the clarification, David … It is as I feared.

Unless there is something very unusual about Warco's design: This simply should not happen, … the bit with the handle attached should be firmly fixed to the feedscrew.

If there is an exploded diagram in the manual; could you please post a picture ?

MichaelG.
3 November 2015 at 11:32 #210431
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
It sounds like the handle might be slipping so include and exploded view of that in the photo as well.

If you are setting the gibs by adjusting and using the handle it's very easy to over tighten them and in any case the slides must be oiled with something suitable. It's best to remove the lead screw and push the slide by hand especially if you haven't done something like this several times before. That way you will detect when there is a slight drag and if the oil film is breaking down. Otherwise a beginner is probably better off leaving things as is.

Suitable oil? Forget 3 in 1 etc. It needs something heavier. Slideway oil is ideal. Some use motor oil but I don't like the smell and don't think it is so effective either.

John

–

Edited By John W1 on 03/11/2015 11:36:12
3 November 2015 at 11:46 #210432
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
Sounds like a problem with… the cross slide nut.. a lot of backlash … or the nut is not fixed to the underside of the cross slide… worthwhile checking this aspect out, can you move the leadscrew /cross slide back & forth by pushing/pulling hand wheel / cross slide … is the key a good fit between the hand wheel & the leadscrew shaft key way ( is there a key in there ? )… not identified on leadscrew… part # 50.. & not just friction driving from the hand wheel, from what you're describing I get the impression there is a lot of slop / backlash / no positive / direct connection in the leadscrew / drive set up, have you measured the backlash…?

Hope this dwg helps…

George.
3 November 2015 at 12:07 #210434
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
John – Oh dear , I feared you may say something like that. Coupled with the 0.07mm taper over about 65mm I’ve talked about on my other thread, I’m starting to get a sinking feeling about my new purchase. My previous lathe was the WM180 and that was great from the start and without any problems. I had it for a year of two and got on with it very well. In terms of competence I’d still consider myself a beginner but I have successfully used the 180 lathe to make a working I.C. engine so I do know the basics. Where I’m completely void of experience, and indeed confidence, is fixing these sorts of problems with the machine tools themselves. Hence any help is really appreciated. I’ll take some photos when I get home tonight.

Anyway, to the subject in hand, yes there is a lot of backlash. It’s probably takes about ¾ of a full turn of the cross slide to take it out. I'll look at the other things you ask when I look at the lathe tonight, but yes there is a key on the handlelead screw.

I'm using slideway oil from Chronos.

David

Edited By David Cambridge on 03/11/2015 12:09:59
3 November 2015 at 12:07 #210435
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Thanks for the drawing, George

I suspect that the little Key [shown by your arrow] will be conspicuous by its absence.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Sorry, I hadn't seen David's latest post when I wrote that ^^^

David: do you mean there is a key, or there should be a key

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 03/11/2015 12:10:52
3 November 2015 at 12:11 #210436
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Michael – yes the key is present.

Edited By David Cambridge on 03/11/2015 12:11:47
3 November 2015 at 12:31 #210440
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
Sounds like your lathe is not fit for purpose. Have you contacted Warco? In principle you can demand your money back, but other people I know have had good after sales from them.
3 November 2015 at 12:36 #210444
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
I’ve yet to talk to Warco I’ll see what comes out of this forum today. To be honest, the last thing I want is my money back as I’d much rather have the lathe sorted. I’m kind of optimistic something can be done about the slipping cross slide , but I’ve not so optimistic with the unwanted taper.
3 November 2015 at 12:39 #210446
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Put it all together and Warco aught to provide you with a free collection and another lathe. They have been reasonable about a part I need to send back to them as it's nvg – a free post number. Lemons will crop up from time to time although in my case I suspect it will be evident in all of them to some degree so I don't want a replacement.

The head might be out because there are some bits under it but then a check from my memory of the tests should have shown that up.

Michael could well be correct about the key and that might explain the back lash. If it's in the nut that is way way too much but as you are aware from the other lathe there will be some.

The gib setting is a tricky business. On some lathes it can make big difference to finish and will help even out eventual wear more if they were very loose but it really is best to do it with the lead screw out which on most lathes is a pretty easy thing to do. It's then easy to pull the slide off and really oil it as well. There was a time when this sort of thing was a good idea anyway as sharp corners might need a bit of relief as they fouled on the mating part of the slide. I bought a small chinese miller once. Owner couldn't use it. All down to that and gib settings. Miller heads tend to be a bit heavy and setting the gibs on those is a real pain.

John

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3 November 2015 at 12:58 #210448
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
If the key is present and dong its job then you should see the bolt that holds the handwheel on (through washer 55)rotating too. I assume you undid this to check the key was there.

if it isn't rotating then perhaps the groove for the key is too deep and hence it is not able to join the two parts or the key isn't big enough.

If it is rotating and you can tighten the bolt while opposing that force on the handwheel then the two are locked together ok. So then the fault must be in the nut and it's fixing.
3 November 2015 at 13:10 #210450
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by David Cambridge on 03/11/2015 12:11:15:

Michael – yes the key is present.

.

Thanks, David

Sorry to appear tediously pedantic, but; given that we had originally gone off on the wrong track, I thought it best to check.

MichaelG.
3 November 2015 at 15:54 #210464
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
'Anyway, to the subject in hand, yes there is a lot of backlash. It’s probably takes about ¾ of a full turn of the cross slide to take it out' …

If you have that amount of backlash & tightening the handle doesn't bring it within reasonable tolerance ( there will always be some backlash ) you could try adjusting the leadscrew nut… on my dwg if you look at the nut… part # 44, you will see that there is a slot about 1/4 way in from the rear of the nut, this indicates that there should be some method of closing the gap in the nut ( bolt or SHCS ) hence closing the nut thread onto the leadscrew thread…thus eliminating / reducing backlash to a more respectable amount… worth a try if you can get in from behind… but; considering it's a brand new machine, you have to consider that you will be voiding any warranty if you go diving into any major work, I would definitely talk to Warco about this machine & see what they respond with…

Re. John W1… 'Put it all together and Warco aught to provide you with a free collection and another lathe'…

In my case Warco's sent me the wrong lathe in the first instance including some bad casting work to boot, but a couple of pics in an e mail, a discussion on the phone they soon had it replaced within the week inc. free pick up & delivery, so a lot to be said for their aftersales service… give them a call soonest before you go diving in.

George.
3 November 2015 at 16:11 #210465
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Before adjusting the nut make sure it is tight to the underside of the cross slide, they have been known to be loose or come loose. cap screw No 28 should be tight
3 November 2015 at 19:38 #210504
Russell Eberhardt
Participant
@russelleberhardt48058
If there is 3/4 turn of backlash it is certainly not the leadscrew nut adjustment. There would be no thread left! It must either be the nut moving or the leadscrew not properly retained. Perhaps the screws 53 that hold the plate 56 being loose enabling the leadscrew to move backwards and forwards in the bearing block?

Russell.
3 November 2015 at 22:11 #210544
David Cambridge
Participant
@davidcambridge45658
Fantastic – this one was really easy to fix thanks to the help from this forum, although I am ashamed I didn’t spot the problem myself. It was indeed cap screw 28 that was loose (very loose!)

Now if only my taper problem can be as easy to fix …..

David
3 November 2015 at 23:00 #210551
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
One down , one to go, we aim to please…

George.
4 November 2015 at 00:25 #210560
Roger Head
Participant
@rogerhead16992
@mechman48

George, do you have the complete manual as a pdf? I don't see any manuals listed on the Warco site.

Thanks, Roger
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