Workshop Machines – How Big is Too Big?

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Spurred on by comments in another thread about something smaller than one of my own machines being too big to move, I'm curious to know what other members think is the upper limit of what they will/can put into their workshop and why?

For my sins I've drawn the line at 1.5 tonnes weight, because that's what I can practically move for myself with a 3500kg MAM van and a hired forklift or gantry and tifor.

Access to the workshop is down a narrow private road with a tight bend and no larger vehicles can pass, so anything heavier would need to be lifted in (and out again) over the fence from a neighbouring cul-de-sac, at which point it just starts getting silly (it is feasible though and not obscenely expensive).

When I next move it is my full intention to ensure I have the space and access to fit bigger equipment in, to match some of my longer term ambitions.

Edited By Jelly on 16/09/2022 18:33:11

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Curious about others perspectives.

[MikelkieParticipant @mikelkie]

Posted by Jelly on 16/09/2022 18:26:18:

Spurred on by comments in another thread about something smaller than one of my own machines being too big to move, I'm curious to know what other members think is the upper limit of what they will/can put into their workshop and why?

For my sins I've drawn the line at 1.5 tonnes weight, because that's what I can practically move for myself with a 3500kg MAM van and a hired forklift or gantry and tifor.

Access to the workshop is down a narrow private road with a tight bend and no larger vehicles can pass, so anything heavier would need to be lifted in (and out again) over the fence from a neighbouring cul-de-sac, at which point it just starts getting silly (it is feasible though and not obscenely expensive).

When I next move it is my full intention to ensure I have the space and access to fit bigger equipment in, to match some of my longer term ambitions.

Edited By Jelly on 16/09/2022 18:33:11

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I just thought it would start getting silly if I went beyond the two man lift limit

Every week ebay has plenty of stuff which would be wonderful

if I won the lottery I could have a working tools museum up and running in 12 months

So it's the two man lift rule which keeps me sane

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

My 290 lathe at a bit over 200kg and I would not want to try and get something bigger or heavier across the lawn and into my basement workshop.

Thor

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

My limit is 1 1/4 tons. Not because I wouldn't like a larger lathe, but because the shed is so full that it's overflowing.

HLV lathe 11 cwt. Beaver milling machine 21 cwt with slotting head, J&S grinder 1 1/4 tons. Bench with tools in draws 1 1/2 tons. Surface table and stand 12 cwt.

All the machines were moved in with a flat bed trailer to the front of the house and a 2 ton gantry and chain hoist the rest of the way along the narrow path and up the slope to the shed.

Pick the machine up with the hoist at one end of the rail.
Run the hoist to the other end of the rail.
Drop the machine.
Move the gantry along.

Lather, rinse repeat.

The chain hoist and the beam off the gantry is now part of a bridge crane in the shed to help with moving anything that's too heavy to comfortably lift.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

My limit is about 500kg, but I suppose it depends on what the bottleneck is. Could be money, power, space, or access. In my case, it's space, unless I spend big money and move house. As it is, I have to fit my whole workshop plus other bits and pieces into a bit less than the size of a single-garage. (Tiny British garage, not one of those lovely giant American things!) There's not quite enough headroom for a Bridgeport. Quite a few advantages – easy to keep warm, and I didn't have to upgrade the power apart from the lighting because the machines are all modest. But it's at least 50% smaller than I'd like.

More a private museum than a workshop, but the largest I've seen belonged to the retired owner of a building company. He collected big ex-industrial lathes, at least 20 of them. I remember looking at a DSG with a chuck big enough to spin a Myford Super 7 and wondering how on earth the chuck was changed without a crane, which he didn't seem to have! The building covered an area about the size of two tennis courts and was purpose built with interlocking concrete piles, with a mezzanine floor, a large industrial door, and corridor space for a big fork-lift. Power from a substation under a pylon, which I guess fed the rest of the site, which seemed to be making large pre-cast concrete panels, pillars and other hefty stuff. Secure fenced site, with access and turning for the biggest trailer lorries.

Although the building was industrial, I guess it would cost a couple of million to buy new. In fact, much cheaper because the piling was surplus, he owned the land and the equipment needed to erect it, and could divert employees to work on it whenever business was slack. Most of the lathes were picked up gratis from his trade contacts. Although they all had power, as far as I could see only one machine was actually being used.

At the time I owned a mini-lathe…

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/09/2022 19:53:14

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A 2'6" door and a wooden floor are my limits so the 280 lathe is as heavy as I would want to go. But it suits the size of work I tend to do.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A lot depends just how much help you can get. We were lucky when the museum was left the Alas 12 x 24 lathe and the Tom Senior light vertical. The lathe was removed from its stand and lowered onto a pallet using the car engine hoist from the museum. The mill was dismantled into pieces which could be lifted by two people and the parts put on pallets. We had also brought a pallet truck and masses of tools in the van which had a tail lift. We had to make two trips and as there was lots of domestic items that we couldn't manage, I advised the son to get in touch with a local charity who could do house clearances, which he didn't know about.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

As well as size and weight don't forget power consumption can both fry your bank balance and your fusebox.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

I am probably at the heavy end of the spectrum with a 2 ton mill and an HLV lathe in an only slightly larger than average single garage…

Now facing a house move (after 20 years) and will probably have to get in professionals. It'll cost, but I don't plan on making a habit of moving and once they're in place I do enjoy using these bigger old machines.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Consider all the physical attributes of the machine and where it is going to be situated. Power, 3ph or 1ph, weight, what is the base like the machine is going to sit on, chuck size, weight can you lift it or do you need a hoist, can you lift the material into the chuck etc, etc. Just a few thoughts, little point in getting something much bigger than the largest part you need to machine, even cutting tools will add up as you go bigger.

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Posted by Bazyle on 16/09/2022 20:33:29:

As well as size and weight don't forget power consumption can both fry your bank balance and your fusebox.

Aye, true enough.

My big oxford arc welder costs about £2.70/hr to run (at the heavy end of the spectrum with 4mm Rutile or 3.2mm Low Hydrogen rods) and is probably the most expensive machine in the workshop to run (despite being by far the simplest), followed closely by the MIG welder.

Had to upgrade the supply to the workshop to support them as well, with it's own dedicated 50A supply spurred off directly after the meter.

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

Well I think on an individual basis, if you stop having to ask other shops from doing something for you, you are big enough however small it may be.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

For me it's not weight, more footprint!

My workshop is only 8' x 10' and its full to bursting!!

Jim

[Marcus BowmanParticipant @marcusbowman28936]

My biggest machine weighs in around 750kg, but it is easily moved using a pallet truck. I guess, for me, the psychologically comfortable limit would be what I could move with the pallet truck, and I think that has an SWL of around 2 tonnes. Lathe and mill are 300 – 500kg and are never moved, Smaller machines are on wheeled cabinets or platforms and can move with a push. Not that there's any space left to move them into…

Marcus

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

A Bridgeport in a normal garage as it's too tall.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I have a J&S 1310 cylindrical stood at the back of my garage, criminally under-used for twenty years but bought in a moment of madness at a local auction simply because it looked so nice being ex-Coventry technical college. It was delivered to the kerbside on a flat bed with HIAB and taken up the drive slung under the tines of a local farmer's teleporter. I can't be many years off having to downsize the house and hang up my tools and shifting it is going to be a bit of an issue but someone will eventually get a superb old British machine tool.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi this is one machine I helped install at the factory I worked at.

17 tons in weight. it was not the largest machine I had installed but they came in parts to assemble on site. we had to remove the roof and there was only 50mm clearance between the steelwork.

David

 

Edited By David George 1 on 18/09/2022 17:09:06

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

I’ve never really worried about the size of a machine. I started with a Super Adept, quickly followed by a Unimat.
This then became a Harrison L5, which was about the capacity of lathe that seemed “right”.

I had a shaper, but then accidentally bought a much bigger mill than intended – I was after about a Bridgeport size, but a TOS FNK25 came up cheap. It’s 1700kg.
That was followed by a J&S540 and then I swapped the L5 for a CVA – basically the same size but much better at keeping the floor from blowing away.

The only one that I didn’t move initially was the TOS – the place I bought it from was having some other machines moved so 100 quid got the mover to drop it off at my door

Dave

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

"…long term ambitions".

Well if its 9" showman's engines then big is best.

For the rest of us I am developing the opinion that you should just get the biggest and best table-top machine you can afford. One that you can put a lot of storage underneath, not just the little metal cabinets they sell.

The reason is off course space. Either you have loads or you have a limit. If you have a life outside of model engineering then space is competitive and there is never enough.

 

 

 

Edited By Roger Best on 19/09/2022 19:11:29

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Posted by Roger Best on 19/09/2022 19:10:02:

"…long term ambitions".

Well if its 9" showman's engines then big is best.

Edited By Roger Best on 19/09/2022 19:11:29

There's a consideration of building experimental pressure vessels and process equipment (I'm actually a Chemical/Process Engineer by trade), which requires a certain amount of scale even at the test rig stage…

To that end I'm in the middle of completing a series of welding qualifications with a view to gaining BS EN 9606 and ASME IX certification to permit me to produce a wider range of equipment "in house" (subject to taking them out for.

​

I also did a lot of "12 inch to the foot scale" steam loco work (in other people's workshops) when I was younger, and would like to be able to tackle more jobs in that world, as it's a great deal of fun.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Size of the machine affects how close you can get to the workpiece. Not a problem on a cnc machine where safety doors mostly keep you away from the cutting point but on manual machines can be a problem. Consider the difference between a 4” and 12” chuck with a piece of 6mm bar in, also the size of the lathe tools in normal use.

[Author]

Posts