Which (round column) drill/mill?

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Hello,

 

I was drolling after a Hauser jig borer, but just can’t afford one. That would be even a little overkill and would also take up some real estate.

 

I have been limping along few years without a half decent pilar drill (I have one 40 kg El cheapo, that has served ok in making triangular holes on many objects). I have a 1.5 metric ton old universal knee type milling machine, put it has no quill – i.e. I have to crank table manually up/down and tram the head and it’s no drill anyway.

 

I basically would be happy with a small jig borer, but they are not too common localy and don’t ship very well.

 

How are these Taiwanese belt driven round column mill/drills in 300 kg class? Are they capaple of decent drilling? SIze would be right and they look fine on the paper, but are castings only few millimeter thick or are they as solid as they look.

 

If the speck says that the drilling capacity is 30 (0r 32?) mm, how much it is in reality with a twist drill on normal structural steel? And I don’t mean wafer thin shavings by coaxing, but with hones table values.

 

How about the accuracy? How much of accuracy I can expect on careful cordinate drilling? Is the spindle and spindle housing better than on those very cheap nasty machines that quill will bear only on hole in a 1/4″ thin cast box? Or on those pilar drills that quil will slop few millimetre every way when cranked out?

 

Is it possible to finetune these near square?

 

I’m not worried about loosing an index with the round column, I’ll use it mainly for drilling, Can’t see  how it can be used for milling.

 

Square column will bring in a gearbox and I have heard them. Don’t like the sound of it. Also I’m not big fan of the chinese DC-motors, I’ll rather have an robust AC-motor and upgrade decent motor and inverter after warranty period.

 

I even don’t need feed on X, although Z would be nice…probably I can build one onto crank. 

 

Any advice? Should I steer clear of RF?

 

PekkaNF

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Rong Fu 30/31 etc, or generic.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Realistically 32 mm is rota-broach or, if desperate, hole-saw territory.  Comparing casual experience with the performance of my 15AY Pollard which will go over 30 mm I’d say 5/8 to 3/4 is about as far as a round column mill drill will routinely go with a twist drill.  Maybe baby a bit bigger but it will depend.  That said 1″ and over is getting into better to power-feed area whatever you have.

As to build quality its the usual careful inspection of the one you are buying thing.  Best is good used where the other guy has sorted all the silly stuff.  If you are considering new purchase costs are well into the area where a good quality non Far East industrial machine could be found and fitted with an X-Y table.  Or even do the Bridgeport J head conversion thing on the mill.

I have a square column belt drive, inverter motor, version (Chester Lux style) fitted with 3 axis glass scale readout which makes an excellent co-ordinate drilling machine whatever its limitations as a mill.  Pretty much matches the Bridgeport as a drill but the Pollard is still ahead.

As always nothing beats a chance to play with a real machine, if you are in striking distance of East Sussex you are welcome to come and twiddle the wheels.

 

Clive 

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

If you are in the southern part of England then there are 2 shows coming up, Sandown in December and Alexandra Palace London in January. Why not go down and have a look at what is on offer even if sellers don’t have a particular machine on show at least you could talk to them.

 

Other than that Chester have showrooms near Chester and Stafford while Warco are in Chiddingfold in Surrey and there are others about the country which I am sure would be willing to let you have a twiddle. I would have thought that with a weight of between 300kg to 500kg the basic construction would be robust and not , to quote, ” castings a few millimeter thick”. Not all of the items offered by the two companies I have mentioned above have DC motors and/or gear train drives. The recommended maximum drilling capacity of these machines in various materials seems to be related more to motor power than to size of machine.

 

Normal disclaimers re company interests etc.

 

Send for catalogues, normally they come free, then ask questions and see if you can visit.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

Edited By Martin W on 29/11/2010 16:39:20

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Thanks,

 

I’m closer to southern part of Finland than England, hence visiting anytime soon is probably not an option. Seriously I’m planning a trip with my family UK, and I will time it to attend one of your big shows.

 

Small industrial machines are here non exixtent and practically no new quality hobbymachines at the market. I’ll check W and Ax, always got what I ordered. Thanks to big evil EU, there are no taxes/customs/BS between memberstates and this makes it most of the time easier to buy stuff from UK than from here. Lot of times it’s pretty much same stuff, but you guys have it on self.

 

PekkaNF

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Well, I have one of the mill drills with the geared head and the dovetailed column, eg it is a little bigger than the round column ones. It has proved very satisfactory, having had it now for nearly ten years. The gearbox is not noisy, and it has a quite substantial AC motor whcih was fitted locally by the importer. Main shortcomings so far have been the stops on the front of the table, which were not well made and did not grip well in the dovetail provided there for them, and the rubber sheets used to exclude swarf from the slides. Later machines that I have seen from local suppliers have improved in both of these areas. It is very satisfactory both for milling and drilling. It can certainly cope with a 1 inch drill without sweating, I don’t have anything bigger to try it with.

 

However, bear in mind that just because you see a machine of a given pattern, don’t asume that it has come out of the same factory. So far as I can tell, there are multiple factories making the same designs to varying quality, and quite possibly any given factory may have more than one quality level. So you pretty much have to go by the particular importer. If you have checked out a machine at one place and it was OK, be wary of going down the road to someone who has what looks like the same machine at a cheaper price.

 

Last time I was in Southern Finland, it was around this time of year. Come to think of it, I have never been in Finland other than in winter.

 

regards

John

 

 

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Hi,

 

Clive,I had a look at “15AY Pollard” what a handsome machine it is. I got imediately pretty green of envy. Something like that – on day.

 

I chekked the Chester LUX:es and the square bed model seems to be more compact that the round pilar model and It won’t have problem with index when head is moved. Not sure if I want to live with the gearbox.

 

Martin, thanks. I’ll check some more suppliers.

 

John, thank you for your info. Which brand square column mill/drill you have? I probably won’t chuck anything bigger that 25 mm drill, but it is reasuring to know that the drill is capable of doing that – it should or it could have problems with rigidy.

 

Do you like snow or have you pissed your employer, because you wisit here only on the winter? I pissed my boss long time ago and I had to spend autumn near Chester and winter in Canada (French speaking area – all 3 months on night sift). Good old times!

 

PekkaNF

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Hi PekkaNF,

 

If this link works it should take you to the one I have…well, mine is earlier and does not have the light, and the way covers on the new ones are better too. Of course you would not want to buy from this outfit, they are a bit too far from Finland. But there wll be machines of this pattern available from the UK, the trick will be to find a supplier who is getting them from a good factory. I went for the dovetailed column because it is a more substantial machine, and because you can change the head height without losing the setting. Incidently the chuck it comes with is only good to about a 16mm drill. Anything bigger should be a taper shank.

 

http://www.chevpac.co.nz/webshop/CHVItem.csp?ID=ECH||1018||15&Specials=0

 

When I went to Finland I was working for Ericsson. I don’t think I had annoyed anyone, it was just how things worked out. I got to Sweden both in summer and winter. I was based in Germany for two years.

 

regards

John

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

Pekka, re. the round column mill/drill: I would nor want one, and I would strongly advise against ordering one unseen and untried.

I had the ‘opportunity’ to use one; for drilling holes between 4 and 10 mm in stainless handrail tubes, and some 15 mm in to 5 mm structural steel. Sure the machine does it, makes real nice triangular ones especially the 10 mm.

My objections: although the machine is heavy and massive, it is not ‘stable’ if you know what I mean.   There is a certain slop in the spindle and quill. But the most problems are with the xy-table. The one on the machine I used had tapered gibs; something usually seen on precision machines. I admit I was very surprised about that. Nonetheless, the feeling was strange and the stability not what I expectedBut the spindles have a pitch of 2.5 mm and some abysmal index collars. Together with backlash of 0.5 mm you need to have a clear head and a good grasp of arithmetic if you try to return to an earlier position. And you will get some serious muscle ache from twiddling the wheels.

The machine I speak about here is admittedly not a new model, but -according to the owner – almost unused.

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[PekkaNFParticipant @pekkanf]

Hansrudolf,

 

If I want new machine I have to buy it without seeing it first. Life is tough sometimes.

 

I have a habit of cranking down a quil on the drilling machines on harware stores – all has incredible amount of slop! Funny thing none of the drilling machines at the work has much play.

 

The features you mentioned are just those that makes me feel ill – even the tought of it.

 

Got back some offers, no one quite convincing. Price is right, machines are ri capacity on the paper, but do they work?

 

I have seen completely useles gibs, wrong dimensions, wrong build, no dimples, threaded end pressing on sloping steel “gib” etc. No way they are intended to work, they are for cosmetics only. Unfortunately, these things you can’t see on the spec or photo or talking to the rep.

Decissions!

 PekkaNF

 

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